Neo-Master titles

[Slartucker]

BioLogIn just won the 2008 tournament going undefeated against all of the best players who are currently active for 16 games. Additionally, he has gotten his Elo up to 2062. I believe this is the second highest Elo of all time, behind only Taliesin. (I don't remember the exact high Elos accrued by Tchichi, ExDeath, Yaron and myself, but I think they were all in the 2040's or 2050's.)

At this point, it would be kind of silly to suggest that Bio has anything left to prove.

So, I think it's time we broke out some new master warlock titles. I'm going to suggest the title "Neo-Master" so that we can distinguish between the old and new masters without implying (even accidentally that either one is inferior. If anyone has better ideas for a title though please post 'em.

I'd like to suggest that we give the title to Toyotami as well. Toyo was the first warlock to break 2000 Elo outside of the old masters, and if he never completely dominated the board, he did spend THREE STRAIGHT YEARS hovering in between first and second tier. During this long period, only two warlocks were able to pass by his Elo and maintain their gains.

Comments? Agreement, disagreement? Respectful flames? Drunken declarations of love awall?

[BioLogIn]

Well, what can I say... thanks! I'm still unsure about my actual abilities, especially given we played our last game with Toyo in a very fast pace and there was quite a few weak plays... But I guess I'll post about it later in a separate thread.

I'd suggest\ask to continue trend you started with Toyo's, yours and ExDeath's titles - make titles more personal (and thus cooler then plain 'New Master' or 'Old Master', and without any inferiority =)). I think Sake Master is very cool title to have (dunno what Toyo actually think about it). Also I'd like to remind to everyone that Toyo was top-4 on tourney 2007, only losing to awall in semis by a judgment. Toyo is awesome, he always was my toughest opponent, and I learned MUCH while being constantly being beaten by him when I was ~1800. I don't think there is anybody who deserves 'Master' title more then he does.

Courtesies aside, I quite like the 'Nightmare' nickname I was given (dubbed?) by succat... So I'd be very content should I have "Nightmare Master" in my status )) It has some kind of pun when translated into Russian as well =)

And 'technically love awall', of course ))

[freesoul]

I think that, once a master, always a master. New masters shouldn't have any distinction between old. We all know who's dominating the board now, and who's MIA (or "Old Fashioned").

Assuming this game last forever, there will always be a new crop of quality players. Challenging the status quo, and exploiting the bad habits of the cream of the crop.

It's already hard enough to qualitatively judge who's worthy, in the non-official, general acceptance manner that exists now. To create another distinction on top of that, really muddies the fact that someone has proved that they have mastered the game, relative to their peers. I don't think we need to asterisk that title with "your not better than the current field". The title doesn't claim to be better than the current field, it's just a sur-name of respect for someone who proved themselves during a period of time... in the storied history of Warlocks.

[taliesin]

Actually... I'm with Freesoul.

BioLogin is 74 ELO points clear of his nearest rival, has been dominant for some period of time, and has one of the highest ELOs ever recorded. Given the historical connotation of "Master" as one on the other side of the gulf between first and second tier, I believe he qualifies. It's irrelevant whether he's worse than, as good as or better than the Golden Age Masters, as it was irrelevant that Pig tailed off after his dominant period. Here and now, he is dominant, so he has the right to the old title.

Now, there is the question of whether we keep the old title or retire it in favour of something more flexible to situations where there are not very clear tier distinctions; but whatever we do, I feel that it should be consistent. I don't see a need to have two different title setups, historical and modern - it's like half-heartedly converting from imperial to metric and ending up with a confusion of systems.

[Dubber]

A Master is a Master is a Master.
No hair-splitting required.

I vote to just keep calling the "Masters" Masters -- no adjectives; tons of respect

[xade]

Suck it up Toyo! I'm the brawler at the gates to the final boss now!

You let too many people through!...



As it stands right now - Bio is the only warlock I expect to lose (see - happy to score a DD against) to. Which is probably why I do.

That said, both he and Toyo are the best two guys going around at the moment. I already think of them as Masters.

[toyotami]

I'd like to thank Bio for the Tournament games again. Well deserved wins. In a way i don't envy his achievement...as has been mentioned, in this game i have always had my sights on a bigger target (I suppose Bio can hunt down Taliesins record with another 15 wins or so).

At the moment, Xade, Succat and myself are playing on an even field. That field is incredibly close to Biologin but it is hard to argue against the numbers right now.

It has been said in other threads but i think Xade, Succat and myself play many games, fast. I enjoy the thrill of a fast game, i even enjoy when i lose because of my haste (especially seeing as it is usually to Xade or Succat anyway, and my revenge is around the corner). I don't take the time to master this game...though i do master sake.

I agree that the master title be awarded to Bio but i would like to refrain from taking any such title myself. Unless it is Master of Second place (2 Tournaments i finished 2nd!)

I like having things to aim for.

[BioLogIn]

I just wanted to say that I while regret vainglorious parts of my previous post in this thread, two points remain:
- Master titles should not be 'Old' or 'New'; instead, some flavor adjectives could\should be added.
- Toyo is (Sake) Master.

upd: Secretary General and Seconds of Sake XD Talk about flavors...

[Slartucker]

If people do favor removing the old/new distinction, we can do that, but in that case we probably need to stick with the old criteria -- even though, as several people have pointed out recently, they do not apply as well to the current era. That was my motivation for the original change, really, to open things up a bit without messing with the past.

[nawglan]

Honestly, if you can keep your elo over 2k, then, you are a Master in my book. Plain and simple. Not that it should give anyone a big head, but, the simple term "Master" has lots of connotations that directly apply to those with more than 2k elo. They have taken the time to think about their moves (where I know I don't. *grin*).

My hat's off to anyone over 2k. If you are in the 1900s or below... you SUCK. 8)

[succat]

BioNightmare is the new King on the block, and Saketami is the Prince in Waiting. No doubts about it. And oh, Xade and myself are the court Jesters

[xade]

ha! happy to be the jester...

I got a lot of tricks up these sleeves...

[ExDeath]

Freesoul and Taliesin: Thank you for echoing my opinions on the way the title should work; there is really no need for distinction between new and old. The term "Neo master" is just as diminishingly qualitative as "Old master", so I'm glad Bio was chosen to be just a regular Master like everybody else.

Anyway, congratulations Bio, and I'd like to point out that I was the one who predicted this when you were still <1900. To me it's obvious when someone understands the theory of the game, and has the dedication to learn and apply it to their play, and you do.

[vermont]

Pretty sure I was the first one to point out Bio as the next big thing as a result of how he played two tourneys ago. I'm glad I can beat you at something, ExDeath.

[ExDeath]

Dec 25, 2008 12:39:02 GMT -5 vermont said:

Pretty sure I was the first one to point out Bio as the next big thing as a result of how he played two tourneys ago. I'm glad I can beat you at something, ExDeath.

I first knew of the legend that would be Bio when it was reported that a newborn Russian baby was born with the mark of a F/P on his right shoulder, but nice try anyway.