Wanted: good follow-up to perma-blind.

[Dubber]

Para-FoD with a Blindness option?
The double D will get in the way...

Plus, you'll have telegraphed each 'P' so your opponent will do a quick large animal summons and the ParaFoD is suddenly much less attractive for the FoDer.

[taliesin]

Dec 3, 2008 17:14:37 GMT -5 mikeEB said:

Is that better than a straight FoD weave, though? The Para-FoD with blindess option looks like it gives only one 50-50 against the standard defense.

Yes, very much better. This is a very naive ParaFoD attack, barely better than starting the game with a ParaFoD attempt.

You get multiple 50-50s against the FoD with a standard defence; I count 3 forced 50-50s in this line here:
SPFPSDWPWPFSSSD
XDWFFDFFFFFFFF

xxx-PDWPPFFFF
xxx-WPPDWPPSDF
This requires the second player to start a para chain after the first paralysis has been cast by the first player. At that point, knowledge of the blinded spellflow is perfect.

Even if you leave it until PWP is complete to start your defence, you can get two 50-50s:
SPFPSDWPWPFSSSD
XDWFFDFFFFFFFF

xxx-PDWPPSDDPP
xxx-WPPDWPSDF
so, in summary, ParaFoD is straightforwardly worse here, as you would expect, and you're more likely to end down by a magic missile or two with an incomplete FoD being abandoned than to win with it. The summoning option against ParaFoD is unlikely to produce a win unless the FoDer's health is very low, though a draw is possible from mid-range health:
xxx-PDWPPSFWDDC
xxx-WPPDWPPWPPC
this costs the FoDer 7 health, 9 health if they use para to prevent a clap on the penultimate turn.

You'll hear a lot of people go on about the virtues of ParaFoD. They're not all they're cracked up to be; it's frequently possible to secure multiple 50-50s against it or wreck it with summoning, and much of the time, if you're the superior player, your other routes to victory are higher-percentage.

[mikeEB]

Actually, I meant this version:
SPFPSDWFFFFFFF
XDWFFDPWPFSSSD


Which has one fewer 50-50. But point taken.

[taliesin]

Dec 3, 2008 20:49:39 GMT -5 mikeEB said:

Actually, I meant this version:
SPFPSDWFFFFFFF
XDWFFDPWPFSSSD


Which has one fewer 50-50. But point taken.

Yeah, that's better. You can still force 3 50-50s by starting very early, once you've seen there's no DPP forthcoming, but that's probably optimistic. More likely is a quasi 50-50 situation like this one:
xxx-PDWPDSx
xxx-WPPDWPP
PDSF provides a 50-50 option, but going down that road seals off the second 50-50 from SWD/Invis. In fact, randomly picking one of those provides a 2/3 chance of escape and should be randomised in 1/3s if consistency is hoped for. Failure branching from any of those possibilities leaves the para player with worse board position.

However, if the other player is sleepy and plays PSD instead of PDS, going offensive too early, they may still have the same 2 in 3 chance but the PSDSF line is reasonably favourable for the para player as it forces a clap, and the para player should probably opt for that one.

However, in any case, these lines are weaker for the attacking player than the Perm Fear/Invis threat.

Another option, of course, is
SPFPSDWxxx
XDWFFDPSDF

As most good opponents will elect to play safe and counter Perm Charm on themselves, Perm Charm cast on yourself is highly viable, and while not by itself game-winning, it can be converted into substantial advantage. While this in some ways is a weaker option than the others mentioned, it limits risk exposure at the end of the Permanency.

[mikeEB]

Dec 3, 2008 10:25:50 GMT -5 taliesin said:

The classical continuation is:

SPFPSDWSW
xDFWFDPPW

xxx-PDWPDW
xxx-WPPDWP


with a 50-50 of Perm Invis and Perm Fear. Perm Fear can be removed like this, after covering Perm Invis with PDWP at the opponent:

SPFPSDWSWD
xDFWFDPPWP

xxx-PDWPDWP
xxx-WPPDWPW


however, this is actually all but game-losing as

SPFPSDWSWDP
xDFWFDPPWPFSS

ends with the classic TaliFoD finish with the additional twist of an extra amnesia threat; perfect play against vanilla TaliFoD yields only 1 chance in 3 of escape, and that chance can be exploited for a guaranteed fireball hit. Here, the odds are even more stacked against the defender.

(necro bump)

TaliFod is a straight 50/50 here, because the defender can escape with the same line that the TaliFod player used to set it up.



DWSWDPDW
DPPWPFSS

DWPDWPPW
PPDWPWSW


If the attacker casts PDWP on himself, the defender can go invis; if the attacker casts PDWP on the defender or does something else, the defender can prevent the FoD with Fear.