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Post by Dubber on Dec 27, 2007 21:21:22 GMT -5
Moved table here, closer to the end of the thread... {{Table updated to Reply #58 in Results thread (2007.12.27 @ 17:43 GMT)}} Mage | Points | Kills | Wins | Losses | Deaths | DS/DD | Completed | ToGo | Spacca | 7 | 2 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 0 | ExDeath | 7 | 4 | 4 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 0 | Citanest | 6 | 1 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 0 | Dubber | 6 | 1 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 0 | Rycchus | 5 | 2 | 4 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 0 | Spez | 4 | 1 | 4 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 0 | dni | 3 | 0 | 4 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 0 | Reds | 3 | 2 | 3 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 0 | Biologin | 2 | 1 | 3 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 0 | Laxen | 0 | 1 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 5 | 0 | Slartucker | 0 | 0 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 5 | 0 | Freesoul | 0 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 5 | 0 | awall | -1 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 4 | 1 | Loyus | -1 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 5 | 0 | nawglan | -1 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 5 | 0 | Maven | -2 | 0 | 2 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 5 | 0 | Toyotami | -3 | 1 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 0 | 5 | 0 | Sojobo | -3 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 3 | 2 | emrys | -4 | 1 | 1 | 3 | 3 | 0 | 4 | 1 | mclizard | -4 | 1 | 1 | 4 | 2 | 0 | 5 | 0 | Vermont | -4 | 0 | 1 | 4 | 1 | 0 | 5 | 0 | xade | -6 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 1 | 0 | 5 | 0 | spleenboy | -7 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 2 | 0 | 5 | 0 | jes | -7 | 0 | 0 | 5 | 2 | 0 | 5 | 0 | TOTALS | 0 | 22 | 58 | 58 | 22 | 0 | 116 | 4 |
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Post by Dubber on Dec 27, 2007 21:26:27 GMT -5
Please check your row for errors! {Data updated 2007.12.27 @ 17:45 GMT -- please check your rows again} | | | | | | | | Played | awall | | s | d | w | w | | | 4 | Biologin | w | s | s | k | w | | | 5 | Citanest | w | k | w | w | w | | | 5 | dni | w | w | w | w | s | | | 5 | Dubber | w | w | w | w | k | | | 5 | emrys | | d | | | d | d | k | 4 | ExDeath | k | k | k | s | k | | | 5 | Freesoul | s | k | k | s | | | d | 5 | jes | s | d | s | d | s | | | 5 | Laxen | w | k | d | | w | d | | 5 | Loyus | s | w | d | k | | s | | 5 | Maven | s | s | w | w | d | | | 5 | mclizard | s | d | k | d | s | | | 5 | nawglan | d | s | w | k | s | | | 5 | Reds | w | k | s | s | k | | | 5 | Rycchus | w | | | s | k | k | w | 5 | Slartucker | w | d | s | w | w | | | 5 | Sojobo | s | | s | | | s | | 3 | Spacca | k | w | w | w | | k | | 5 | Spez | | w | k | s | w | w | | 5 | spleenboy | s | s | d | s | d | | | 5 | Toyotami | d | k | w | d | d | | | 5 | Vermont | | d | s | s | s | w | | 5 | xade | s | d | s | | s | | s | 5 | TOTALS | | | | | | | | 116 |
Current through Reply #58 (seven columns now)
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Post by Dubber on Dec 31, 2007 12:50:05 GMT -5
12-18 hours remain to wrap up the final 2 battles... Sojobo? emrys? awall? Any info on your final battle(s)?
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Post by BioLogIn on Dec 31, 2007 13:27:35 GMT -5
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Post by toyotami on Jan 2, 2008 3:02:54 GMT -5
I want to reapply my mild protest to the scoring system (sorry if this is discussed on a different thread).
That ExDeath finished above 2 undefeated players with a defeat shows some unfairness. I do not think that killing somebody is a definitive display of skill. It often means a close game (indicating the winner came close to losing, ie. are not so good). As with my previous argument: if i get paired with 5 players that want V/F's and Xade gets paired with 5 ladder gamers i stand a greater chance of killing my opponent (again with no additional indication of skill neccesary).
Perhaps changing the kill point system to 1.5? I do like the idea of going for blood but apart from those rare kills where an opponent has hunted 3-5 checkmate moves back, it is no indication of skill.
Thoughts?
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Post by ExDeath on Jan 2, 2008 3:52:56 GMT -5
I agree with Toyotami.
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Post by xade on Jan 2, 2008 7:29:24 GMT -5
3 points for a win. 1 point for a draw. 0 points for a loss. 1 bonus point for a kill... End result, surprisingly similar... Spacca 17 ExDeath 16 Citanest 16 Dubber 16 Rycchus 14 Spez 13 dni 12 Reds 11 Biologin 10 Laxen 10 Slartucker 9 Freesoul 8 awall 6 Loyus 7 nawglan 7 Maven 6 Toyotami 7 Sojobo 0 emrys 4 mclizard 4 Vermont 3 xade 0 spleenboy 0 jes 0
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Post by Slartucker on Jan 2, 2008 9:44:28 GMT -5
This is the system I am sticking with for now. You're right that getting a kill does not necessarily indicate skill. But remember, this is league play, not tournament play. The point is definitely not to produce an exact ranking of who's better than who. It would be kind of silly to pull such a system from five random pairings anyway.
This is different from a regular win-draw-lose system, absolutely. But it's not any less fair. It does require adjustment in how you play, if you want to maximize return. ExDeath adjusted. He read the rules, saw the value of kills, and went out of his way to secure them. He did things he wouldn't normally do in a Friendly or Very Friendly game. So in this particular case I would say his score *is* reflective of skill: perhaps gaming skill more than Warlocks skill, but gaming skill is always relevant wherever there are rules, and choices to make, and to refuse to recognize it would be a rather solipsistic approach.
It's also worth pointing out the killing somebody isn't ACTUALLY worth double what getting a win is. Because a regular win is worth 2 points more than a regular loss, and a kill is worth 3 points more than it. Really, the scoring system could be written out as follows:
0 death 1 surrender 2 tie 3 win 4 kill
This would give every player an extra 10 points, as EVERY result is worth an extra two points. But it wouldn't change the rankings in any way. (So Xade, your system is so similar because all you did was make losses worth less.)
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Post by xade on Jan 2, 2008 16:06:48 GMT -5
hey... I think you might be on to something...
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Post by Rycchus on Jan 4, 2008 13:32:07 GMT -5
That ExDeath finished above 2 undefeated players with a defeat shows some unfairness. I do not think that killing somebody is a definitive display of skill. It often means a close game (indicating the winner came close to losing, ie. are not so good). As with my previous argument: if i get paired with 5 players that want V/F's and Xade gets paired with 5 ladder gamers i stand a greater chance of killing my opponent (again with no additional indication of skill neccesary). If you think you stand a greater chance of getting a kill with VFs then set all five games as VFs - it's the default if you can't decide what variant to go for anyway. Seems fairly simple to me.
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