|
F/S
May 18, 2008 19:39:21 GMT -5
Post by succat on May 18, 2008 19:39:21 GMT -5
It's probably not much of a surprise anymore that I have been opening lately with F/P With that said, it seems that when my opponent opens with F/S... I get scared Really scared! Seriously though, I think it works great against my opening, and I don't really have an answer for it yet other than opening with F/S myself... which I really haven't tried much, if at all, at this point~
|
|
|
F/S
May 18, 2008 20:32:48 GMT -5
Post by awall on May 18, 2008 20:32:48 GMT -5
Well, you probably don't want to try for FoD in F/P vs. F/S, but I think you might not be that bad off. On turn 3, consider two of your options vs. two of theirs:
FFF->opp PSD vs. FFF->opp SPF
You para their RH. At this point, if either player hits F/S with a disruption on turn 4, one hand gets paralyzed or charmed to C or -. You, meanwhile, come off of PSDD or PSDF (depending on whether they para your RH or LH) with some form at attack while they recover.
FFF->opp PSD vs. FFF->self SPS
This one's pretty neutral, I think. The only really bad outcome here is if F/S manages to not get disrupted on turn 4 (either because they bounced your disruption, or because you didn't cast anything at them and they threw para at you), in which case they get an Ogre. That's risky though, because if either charm or para hits them, they're in an ugly spot. They'll probably opt for F/D (para at self) instead, which isn't that bad for you. Even if they bounce your turn 4 disruption, you can defend their charm with your own para.
FFF->opp PSF vs. FFF->opp SPF
The ogre and the antispell both get disrupted, you wind up even steven. You could try paralyzing their LH instead, but this results in you having to defend perm/troll/charm which, while trivial (they're a gesture behind you on their LH), puts you on the defensive.
FFF->opp PSF vs. FFF->self SPS
You gesture F/W (para at self) on turn 4. Oh look, you get para + ogre! 'nuff said.
I didn't really consider FF/SF or FF/SW as openings, as my intuition tells me they both suck (FFF/PSD takes out the goblin, the second opening is just inherently weak as it leaves F/S with no offensive potential, and furthermore neither of the disruptions can really be safely targeted at self). Somebody who is better at this kind of analysis, please tell me what I'm missing.
Edit: Actually, FFF/SWP might work decently if F/S throws para at self. If F/P goes for charm, it becomes fairly even with a slight advantage to the F/S player. If F/P goes for an Ogre, it's less pretty.
|
|
|
F/S
May 20, 2008 22:19:52 GMT -5
Post by xade on May 20, 2008 22:19:52 GMT -5
hmmm, does it seem that para is looking like the spell to break the D/P stranglehold? F/P and F/S both seem to have the potential to hold there own against D/P. Heh, good on it.
|
|
scwizard
Ronin Warlock
Lone Wol
Posts: 55
|
F/S
Apr 19, 2010 11:18:15 GMT -5
Post by scwizard on Apr 19, 2010 11:18:15 GMT -5
I use tables to cast resurrection on this thread! DPP PSD & SPF FFFThis is favorable to SF, P/F > -/? DPP PSF & SPF FFFThis is favorable to DP, because ogre. DPP PSD & SPS FFFThis is favorable to DP, because guessing charm always sucks. DPP PSF & SPS FFFThis is favorable to SF, because DP loses initiative canceling his ogre. | DPP/PSD | DPP/PSF | SPF/FFF | SF+ | DP+ | SPS/FFF | DP+ | SF+ |
The result is even. The above table is the top left cell in the below table: | Casts amnesia | Fakes amnesia | Paras self | Even | DP+ | Paras opp | | SF+ |
More analysis is needed as you can see. Also there's probably something important I'm missing.
|
|
|
F/S
Apr 19, 2010 11:29:06 GMT -5
Post by salvor on Apr 19, 2010 11:29:06 GMT -5
archaeologist! please,write targets for mindspells =). For now it is impossible to check your analysis I suppose you didn't analised FFF(op)/SPS variant? It is the main one,actually, FFF(smb)/SPF is usually inferior to FFF(smb)/SPS And don't forget about maladroit. Some people( xade, awall, bio) believe that it is better answer than DP/PS. And, don't be so orthodoxal, why just two possible variants FFF/SPP DPW/PSD DP/PW FFF/SFW, try them!Maybe you'll find something interesting (mwuhaha )
|
|
scwizard
Ronin Warlock
Lone Wol
Posts: 55
|
F/S
Apr 19, 2010 14:30:23 GMT -5
Post by scwizard on Apr 19, 2010 14:30:23 GMT -5
Amnesia is always cast at the opponent. I specified the targets of para. Remember the first table is the top left cell of the second table, so it's under "Paras self" see And don't forget about maladroit. Some people( xade, awall, bio) believe that it is better answer than DP/PS. And, don't be so orthodoxal, why just two possible variants FFF/SPP DPW/PSD DP/PW FFF/SFW, try them!Maybe you'll find something interesting (mwuhaha ) One step at a time Those were the variants being discussed at the beginning of this thread, so those are the ones I analyzed. DSF is certainly very important. Well I said in the case of DP faking amnesia, that it was favorable. What you're describing though is the bottom left cell of the second table, which I'll get around to filling out soon!
|
|
|
F/S
Apr 19, 2010 15:48:17 GMT -5
Post by salvor on Apr 19, 2010 15:48:17 GMT -5
I meant that you should write targets in text:
|
|
|
F/S
Apr 22, 2010 11:09:32 GMT -5
Post by ourjake on Apr 22, 2010 11:09:32 GMT -5
so does this mean everybody's joining us for a party at the Frozen Finger Fortress then?
|
|
|
F/S
Apr 22, 2010 13:37:23 GMT -5
Post by salvor on Apr 22, 2010 13:37:23 GMT -5
You know, I'm the paramancer somewhere in my soul)))
Or more generally PWP-macer, either if it is SWD/PWP or FFF/PWP.
|
|
|
F/S
Apr 24, 2010 0:05:15 GMT -5
Post by succat on Apr 24, 2010 0:05:15 GMT -5
Analyze this: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
|
|
|
F/S
Apr 24, 2010 3:14:36 GMT -5
Post by xade on Apr 24, 2010 3:14:36 GMT -5
hmmmm, there appears to be some interesting branch on turn 3, turn 4 was a fairly obvious call.
I like what you did with turn 5, 6 and 7, but the para string probably should have been jumped off at turn 8.
The next 10 turns you were backpedaled, but got back into the game from your opponents mistakes.
The ogre you got out on turn 28 should have seen you press for the throat, but after your opponent hit you with amniesia, then turned invisible you were throwing para at the ogre, he got some refuge....
|
|
|
F/S
Apr 24, 2010 9:00:07 GMT -5
Post by Dubber on Apr 24, 2010 9:00:07 GMT -5
{the stuff in the previous post} Um, to what are you referring?
|
|
|
F/S
Apr 24, 2010 20:34:58 GMT -5
Post by xade on Apr 24, 2010 20:34:58 GMT -5
Succats game. T'was a marvelous game filled with many decision points. Epic really.
|
|
|
F/S
Apr 25, 2010 4:25:07 GMT -5
Post by salvor on Apr 25, 2010 4:25:07 GMT -5
This game teached me a lot,too. I think it is a marvelous 76-turn game. Haven't seen such for a while. Teached me a lot.Like the double time-stop combo on 36-45th turn, and of course classic timestop-disease on 67th. Defence used by succat was, I suppose the only possible, but highly nontrivial. Excelent game.
|
|
|
F/S
Apr 25, 2010 6:33:18 GMT -5
Post by Wider, adepte of evil forces on Apr 25, 2010 6:33:18 GMT -5
I really wouldn't have expected the 'F' at that point, really clever.
|
|