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Post by BioLogIn on Jul 16, 2008 4:53:32 GMT -5
I think if Biologin analysed ALOT of skilled (+1900) games he would find that many were decided by the fluke of the echantment roulette. Yep, possibly, but in the game w\o para this is not the first 'mistarget' that cause game loss. With para price of a single mistarget is much greater then w\o para. ExDeath and others will argue that there is not a true 50/50% in most cases, that ther eare underlying advantages/disadvantages of each choice and counter measures that can be taken. Same argument flies with my para games against Succat. Playing them, yes there are many "50/50"'s targeting, but if you play the odds, you get more chances to beat them. Could you please give an analysis of your (or anybody else) success versus parachain which was based on some strategy other then a number of 50\50 psychological choices? I'm really curious about it, no pun intended. I think Succat's FFF play has changed the game...players like Xade and Biologin use para more. The weakness of Succat's game is its predictability. If he only threw the odd curveball he might stand to win more games? I deny this =) IMHO quite contrary, I'm using less and less para nowadays. Even when I start with para to be safe VS D/P, I gladly jump off it as soon as I have an opportunity. There were times when xade said that 'Bio is a para guy'. I doubt he will hold to this point today =)
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Post by Citanest on Jul 16, 2008 5:46:57 GMT -5
So....
Should somebody politely ask Ravenblack if he could implement Non-cancelling paralysis? I know asking him for anything will always feel rude and ungrateful, but in this instance I think a request could be justified.
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Post by BioLogIn on Jul 16, 2008 5:56:57 GMT -5
implement Non-cancelling paralysis? We're back to yet another old discussion, but... I'm not sure non-cancelling para is the best solution. It may weaken paraFoD, but what with other para applications? Para+monster will be even more deadly then it is now. I still think cutting para and amnesia in half (para works only each second turn, amnesia works only on one hand of caster's choice) will be right enough to rebalance this game. As for asking RavenBlack... to put a long story short, I doubt this is going to work. This project is effectively abandoned by him now.
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Post by toyotami on Jul 16, 2008 7:42:26 GMT -5
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Post by xade on Jul 16, 2008 18:53:05 GMT -5
heh, that bio... he's a para guy... As far as I go, I think I'm just lazy at the moment.
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Post by freesoul on Jul 18, 2008 18:04:51 GMT -5
Xade, you're crazy lazy. Or lazy crazy. either way...
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Post by ExDeath on Jul 18, 2008 18:52:30 GMT -5
Lots of things to reply to. I'll start here.
Yes, Pig was certainly the first master. There was a time when nobody could really beat Pig, and then Tchichi came along. He stayed at the top of the ladder for an extremely long time, although just like any early star, the game evolved past him.
A long time is any amount of time where people keep challenging you and getting frustrated because they can't beat you, or where they get frustrated because they can't reach your ridiculous ladder score. But I think playing/winning friendlies is also an important demonstration in these times.
There is a bit of a plateau, partially because of the use of para which levels the playing field a lot, and partially because of this forum. See below:
The people right now who are 1900ish, they read this forum and study the theory of the game. The people who are below them, don't. I can guarantee that if this forum did not exist, half of those players would be stuck at the 1700 level for some time. Studying the game is what pays, natural talent only goes so far.
Although I don't play anymore, I do analyze games. Mostly Bio's and succat's. And (not in their games specifically) I see a lot of mistakes. A lot of wasted gestures. It may not be significant, but it is important. Those small advantages will add up to show the Elo difference between a 1900 player and a 2050 player. No matter how much you read about the best openings to use, and what beats what, you really have to sit down and look at lines to know whether this F that just came out of left field is going to end up gaining you time or losing you time. And I honestly don't think anybody does that. I'm not bragging, I think if some of the current field did the kind of work I started to do, they would also reach my level.
On non-cancelling para: I hate this idea. I think it actually makes para more of a problem. Other fixes have been suggested, some are good and some are not. I would like to see para go away, but I don't think it is damaging the game tremendously. And making amnesia affect only one hand would drastically underpower the spell, below maladroit levels. It has 2 P's for a reason. Plus, it doesn't even stop the loop..or rather..it doesn't turn the loop into anything interesting.
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Post by BioLogIn on Jul 19, 2008 16:49:23 GMT -5
ExDeath Agreed on everything. I see some of my mistakes as well, and many of them grow from lack of analysis or even from inattention. But I'm not motivated now to level up my game at cost of few additional hours per day. I can beat any active player at my current level (can lose to some as well, but that's not the case). Should one of you guys suddenly come back at force to dominate everyone including me, that would surely be a 'motive' to improve... but given the last few months it is very unlikely ( And while you guys are out, I'll proceed to my small goals at a pace that fits my job, family, hobby, etc...
On a brighter side, I know what to do to bring (some of) you guys back =) But it will remain a small sweet secret for a while ))
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Post by BioLogIn on Jul 20, 2008 3:58:30 GMT -5
...on the other hand, "playing right" is an interesting challenge in itself. Maybe I'll try to try it soon =)
Getting back on the topic, Dubs, I think the only thing everyone is very tired of is dead silence of this forum ) So my thanks for reviving it a little with this thread XD
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Post by ExDeath on Jul 20, 2008 4:04:43 GMT -5
Somebody exceeding my Elo would probably bring me back. Other than that, I dunno. Asian girls in short skirts? Free beer? Poker hacks?
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Post by BioLogIn on Jul 20, 2008 4:33:31 GMT -5
Somebody exceeding my Elo Well, that's an easy way =) I'm thinking of something far more challenging XD
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Post by ExDeath on Jul 20, 2008 5:25:23 GMT -5
Somebody exceeding my Elo Well, that's an easy way =) I'm thinking of something far more challenging XD Really? if it's so easy, why hasn't anyone done it yet?
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Post by BioLogIn on Jul 20, 2008 7:06:42 GMT -5
exdeath Getting to 2000+ is nowhere easy, and I know this much. What I meant was that what I'm going to do is much harder (although in a different way) =)
upd: I guess I should have used word 'easier', and not 'easy'. Please excuse my poor English then, blah-blah (
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Post by succat on Jul 20, 2008 10:57:24 GMT -5
This thread has gotten quite good. Ex, I guess in a way what you're saying about Masters is true. I know I still need to step up my game and not take such foolish risks all the time. Sometimes I do things just to see if I can get away with them, while when I play a slower, tighter and safer game I usually don't make so many bonehead moves. Right now, I feel pretty confident about playing against non-paraholics, but it's the guys that are now throwing back para in my face that are the ones giving me the most trouble .. for the moment anyway, but I guess I deserve that Bio, I for one am eagerly looking forward to whatever you have planned, my friend. You are ahead in the race for sure.. but maybe it has to do with Ladder, eh? If so, then that's also been my own plot ...that is until you knocked us both down! As for para being changed, why not just add another mind spell to the board and leave para alone? Another mind spell, or even 2 more mind spells added to the game would be more ammunition to use against para, thus balancing it out more. This is just a quick and dirty idea, and by no means a real solution... SSS ~ SHIRK (when cast upon a subject, it cancels out any other mind spell also cast upon that subject) <EDIT> (perhaps it should ONLY cancel out para, not other mind spells) ME: F F F F F P w P F S YOU: S S S S S P S P F P In this example, YOU abandon the ogre as you see that there is going to be an FoD attempt, and go for the AntiSpell instead while the string of SSSSS's in your left hand cancels out all of the paralysis. In this case I could switch to cause heavy wounds since I know that I'm about to be anti-spelled. But now you have initiative because you completed the anti-spell, you can summon a goblin easily, and if I go on the defensive now with SSSSS on myself so that I don't get permanently charmed or something like that, you now have the opportunity to Permanently Charm-Person yourself and avoid all future mind spell attacks, and in the meantime that goblin you summoned probably just got me for 2-3 hit points. I know something like this would change the game drastically, but it could be used as the anti-para.. possibly Another spell could be PDD ~ Hostile (when cast upon a subject, the hand with the lowest gesture (alphabetically) becomes a stab on the next turn. If both gestures are the same, Hostile fails to work) So if my one hand has an F and my other hand has a P and I get hit with Hostile and don't cancel it out with another mind spell or counter-spell myself, then on the next turn my F gets turned into a stab, where with I will most likely stab you (or your monster, if you have one). If that F was say.. a D, then the D would get turned into a stab because D is lower than P. So yeah, you (or your monster) will get stabbed (unless you shield), but hey, you blocked a potential para/FoD, and what I like about it is that it starts with PD so you could have more opportunity to use PDWP now (something I rarely ever use). Or just dummy into PDP or PDS ... FFF> PWPF PDDS SFWF 'Course this is all just fun and speculation, it probably would never work correctly if you started examining scenarios. And I wouldn't think RB would change the game now at this point in time anyway, but if enough people sign the Para Petition, who knows... he just might
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Post by ExDeath on Jul 20, 2008 12:45:24 GMT -5
So basically you want to implement a new para. Not to mention how disgusting that spell is for FoD, it's even built into the line.
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