Enrage - A Practical Assessment

[Slartucker]

Hmm. I suppose you are right about strings ending in D, and the nice reasons to end in S. I prefer that greatly to ending in W, as among other things it doesn't encourage long, drawn-out defensive sequences. I still dislike FF_, but FFS is an improvement: if nothing else it gives fireball a nice boost.

FSP I think goes overboard in setting up antispell -- consider FSPFPx/xFSPFP. The disruption would have to be weak indeed.

I also like your version of Forbid: it's quite dynamic.

[xade]

FFS boosting fireball? no Shut! it's almost a free fireball, unless there's some clever jiving...

also, the FFS will prevent a DPPSFW.

Though it would make fireproofing a lot more viable...

I feel that this spell *has* to end on a W... it has the potential to make - three turns from now - *any* spell unblockable. I don't think it should also be the same hand to deliver said spell... it *should* have to work in unison with the other hand.

[Slartucker]

It has no such potential. I mean theoretically it could contribute to that possibility, but no moreso than Amnesia -- less than Amnesia I think -- and it can always be interrupted with, say, another disruption. There are few sure things in Warlocks, and this isn't one of them.

Edit: And how is it a free fireball any more than PSDF is a free bolt? It's less than that, frankly, since the spell is less than charm.

[xade]

we're still talking enrage here right?

as in FFS - SDD
where a W can't be thrown on the second S?

At least with the Charm, you can get a counterspell mounted. with this, you're just out. unless you can hit with a fear on either turn, or amniesia on the second S (or a charm), then you're getting hit by a fireball...

(though I did miscount on the amniesia to summon weave...)

[ExDeath]

Actually the new spell I gave said FFS - opponent can't use either gesture from your two hands. So if you go W on your other hand, yes, it's a "free" fireball but it's still easy enough to disrupt with the same spell or with fear. Or you could just ignore it and cast your own. It's good but it's not the end of the world.

[xade]

basic comprehension, 101.

I flunked.

[awall]

My only beef with FFS is the spellflow. If we're keeping para as SFFF, this might lead to some truly unfortunate SFFFSFFFS... chains. It's not a disruption every turn the way para was, but it's two every four turns, which isn't that much better. If para was changed to DSFFF, then FFS might be a decent option.

I agree with Slarty, FSP is too much of a lead-in to Antispell.

Slarty: I understand your hesitation with FFx, but I think it may be the best choice in this case. Let's say we want the spell to end with S. Consider:
FPS: Obviously out.
FDS: Again, obviously out.
FWS: Makes summons ridiculous.
FSS: Fireball and FoD don't need a built-in disruption.
FFS: Best choice.

If we end it with W instead, we have a few options:
FPW: Awkward. The P in the middle makes this one hard to cast, and the W on the end makes it hard to keep initiative after doing so.
FDW: No.
FWW: Ugh. Not exactly overpowered, but encourages defensive spellflow in a huge way. I'll pas.
FSW: FSWD is technically not that much nastier than SFFFW, except that the terminal D is much nicer than terminal W, so I think FSW is too good.
FFW: Still the best choice, in my opinion.

We obviously don't want it to end with F, and we've established that many of us are hesitant to end it with D. For completeness's sake:
FPP: Too similar to Amnesia.
FDP: No, no, no, a thousand times no!
FWP: Maybe only a hundred times no.
FSP: We don't like this one, see above.
FFP: Again, the best choice.

So unless we want to accept another disruption ending in D (which I'm not in favor of), we're pretty much looking at FFx here.

[ExDeath]

I don't see SFFFSFFFS being all that overpowered. You can already do chains like DSFFFSWDSFFFS, whether that one is as disruptive or not I don't know, but it exists. I like the idea of being able to go into a para-forbid or para-enrage straight out of WWS, or dummied from PS, so I'd prefer to keep para as SFFF.

[Slartucker]

Agreed and agreed. A disruption 2 out of 4 turns is not overpowered at all. All that means is that a spell ends on a gesture that has an available 3 gesture disruption. Guess what? Almost every spell already does -- D, S, and F all have 3 gesture disruptions.

FFx does help an SFFF para quite a bit, however para at SFFF -- 4 gestures, awkward branching, no chaining -- is extremely weak without help anyway. Here's another spell idea that is in character with that structure:

FFS
Shock
The victim cannot use either of the gestures that HE used the previous turn.

[ExDeath]

Shock is definitely interesting, a less powerful version of the spell probably. There's a sadistic side of me that wants to see both of them implemented, like Shock at FFS and "Panic" at WFFS so if that combination somehow comes up, it will be near impossible to predict what's about to happen to you.

[awall]

Heh, that'd be interesting. I'd say we're probably okay with para and whatever other disruption winds up being FFW or FFS. You still get the fork at SFF.

Actually, I think "Panic" is a good name for a mindspell, regardless of what we make it do.

So are we still testing Enrage at FFW, or should we be trying out some form of one of the FFS disruptions?

Edit: Heh... DWFF = panic, shock, or blindness? That's almost as bad as SPFPSD with a monster on your opponent's side.

[xade]

cept no-one ever choses blindness...

[Slartucker]

I initially thought about restricting Shock to affect each hand independently, but that is really too weak. I don't think it's really so strong: like Maladroit, you can plan to absorb it pretty easily.

What I have now become more worried about, as regards FFx, is what happens after DFF. You get a nice disruption fork! As if we needed to make PSDFF any better of an option.

I would actually like to suggest FSS again. I know it's awfully close to fireball, but frankly, fireball is undercast, and if the disruption isn't too strong, it's not really any more of a boon than PSDF leading to DFFDD is. FSS also appears in FOD -- however, it's not in the beginning, so it won't encourage going into FOD; it doesn't increase the chance of completing FOD successfully, so no NPE; however, it does increase options for casting FOD, not really a horrible thing with paralysis support gone.

[ExDeath]

Heh, I can see it now, with my version of the spell...

PWPFSS
DSFFFC