utis
Ronin Warlock
longing to see were it but the smoke leaping up from his land
Posts: 29
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Post by utis on Nov 13, 2010 12:45:22 GMT -5
Hello!
I've become interested in 'waving hands'/firetop mountain/warlocks years ago for the first time. I found no way to ease myself in, though, so I gave up. Now, after playing kongai, I was reminded of it again. Now, after skimming some articles about strategy, I'm very much intrigued.
But how would I get my feet wet? Is there a way to play against an AI, no matter how stupid it might be, just so I can get comfortable with the rules and see if I come to get a feeling for the game before I start to bother other players?
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Post by xade on Nov 13, 2010 16:13:35 GMT -5
Generally the v.friendlies are a good way to start. If you want to, you can challenge me to a v. friendly and I'll play real nice...
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Post by succat on Nov 13, 2010 16:39:48 GMT -5
I'm always down for a VF too so challenge me if you wish to learn the ways of a Paramaniac.
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utis
Ronin Warlock
longing to see were it but the smoke leaping up from his land
Posts: 29
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Post by utis on Nov 14, 2010 2:35:31 GMT -5
Thank you, I'll take both offers.
Be aware though, that I don't know yet what i'm doing. So, I feel like I'm wasting your time. I'd rather play the first five or so games against a bot that choses its gestures randomly, because what I'm going to do is not much better. But, well, since you asked for it ...
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Post by BioLogIn on Nov 14, 2010 3:52:53 GMT -5
Unfortunately, there is no working warlocks bot at the moment. Just throw some vf challenges open or private, and people will grab em . Or just register another acc and play some games vs self... Just remember to keep those games very friendly. And preferably add 'parafc maladroit' words to games' description to use more balanced version of rules
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Post by vermont on Nov 14, 2010 9:53:32 GMT -5
I'm always down for a VF too so challenge me if you wish to learn the ways of a Paramaniac. I feel rather strongly that teaching someone to focus on a single spell right away is exactly the wrong thing to do. While a few people enjoy reducing the problem set and thinking about only one aspect of the game on almost every turn, I can't imagine we'll see a higher rate of people who stick with the game. My two cents anyway. The nice thing about opinions is that we're each entitled to have our own.
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Post by succat on Nov 14, 2010 12:28:12 GMT -5
vermont - I never said to disregard all the other spells! You need to know 'em all, but he may as well find out how to play against different styles while he's at it. When I first started out, knowing how to play against FoD and an F line would have saved me a lot of lost games. My two cents anyway. The nice thing about opinions is that we're each entitled to have our own.
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Post by ourjake on Nov 14, 2010 17:43:29 GMT -5
i'm always willing to play. and if it makes you feel better, i'm usually killing time at work, so if you're going to waste some time, i have some extra
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Post by saypin on Nov 14, 2010 23:54:28 GMT -5
i'm always willing to play. and if it makes you feel better, i'm usually killing time at work, so if you're going to waste some time, i have some extra Always willing to play, too cause I have some spare time at work. throw a vf
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Post by ellipsis on Nov 23, 2010 21:03:42 GMT -5
I think you'll find, Utis, that the people who play this game actually like being bothered. And I recommend that for your first few games you always have the spell reference page open in another tab/window so you can look back to it often. Then it's a two step process of: 1) What do I want to do? Look up the spell you want and make those gestures. 2) What is my opponent trying to do? Check his last handful of gestures against the spell list to see if he's going to do something tricksy, and if so prepare a counterspell. This might take time at first to compare his gestures with all the different spells, but you can take as much time as you need each turn, and doing so will make you more familiar with the spells. Good luck!
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utis
Ronin Warlock
longing to see were it but the smoke leaping up from his land
Posts: 29
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Post by utis on Nov 25, 2010 0:03:22 GMT -5
Thank you very much, all of you!
I still think that a dumb AI would have been nice to get through the absolute n00b stage. I'm in my seventh match now and I have already accidentally surrendered two or three times, not because I didn't read the section about "typical newbie mistakes", but because I had to juggle too much relevant information in my head at the same time.
Now I feel that at least some dim ideas of what I'm trying to do start to form in my head, and that I might start to slowly learn from my mistakes, rather thank being totally clueless as to what hit me. I have to thank everybody who was and is willing to bear with me, especially xade, who was so kind to let me live long enough that a couple of small cog wheels in my head could connect.
I read experienced players write about "weaves" as if there is a shared experience of which standard situations work and which ones don't? My feeling right now is that it's not only important what a spell does and how many gestures it takes, but also how those gestures can be woven into a spellflow. At any rate, it seems very much that some spells are more important and more frequently used than others.
So, my question is: which ones are the, so to say, bread & butter spells?
DPP, SWD, DSF, FFF, PSDF/D? WPP, WWP, WWS? SFW?
In order to cope with the idea of "weaves" and "spellflow" somehow I started to try to arrange spells into patterns, I imagine this to be something like "katas" in martial arts:
LH: DSF SFW WWS SWD DPP PDWP WPP PPws RH: PSDF DFW WWP WPP PSDD DSF SFW WWS
Any thoughts or recommendations?
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utis
Ronin Warlock
longing to see were it but the smoke leaping up from his land
Posts: 29
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Post by utis on Nov 25, 2010 0:06:33 GMT -5
The bbs dropped my formatting.
LH: DSFWWSWDPPDWPPws RH: PSDFWWPPSDDSFWWS
I had these arranged as a staircase, because I still have trouble to read this.
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Post by xade on Nov 25, 2010 5:07:34 GMT -5
As for bread and butter, it all comes down to personal preference- I know that I personally use amniesia- or DP more often than I prolly should, with DS generally used if I'm being defensive. however, at all times you need to be working both hands in your favor- both offensively and defensively. Because it's a pretty small community, through experience you'll get a feel for how people play- and how best to figure them out. If you haven't already found it, I would suggest give the refuge a good look through. minmax.ermarian.net/refuge/Read it to take in what you can- then re-read it every so often. With more experience, you'll find that new thing will pop out and you'll take more knowledge out of it each time. oh, and watch out for the paramancers- they can be tricky if you don't know how to handle em.
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Post by ourjake on Nov 26, 2010 15:22:44 GMT -5
i don't know what trickiness you could be talking about... as a general rule, for me, all of the 3-4 gesture spells are pretty common and the others are for special situations (i.e.: when you know you can get them off). keeping up a para line can be rather addicting, but in the wrong situation, will get you beaten down pretty quick (i.e.: monsters). I like DSF over DPP, because i like to bluff, and DS moves into DSW, which is still one turn away from a spell, instead of DPS which is two turns off. That said, i regularly get beaten by most everyone, so take the advice with a grain of salt
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Post by mikeEB on Nov 26, 2010 20:28:10 GMT -5
The most important spells in the game are indeed Charm Person, Counterspell, Paralysis and Summon Goblin. Next tier is probably Amnesia, Maladroit/Confusion and Summon Ogre, but this is harder to call.
The most important strategic principle is to take your opponent's options into account before acting.
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