utis
Ronin Warlock
longing to see were it but the smoke leaping up from his land
Posts: 29
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Post by utis on Jan 23, 2011 12:15:12 GMT -5
I'm trying to figure out, when and how to use Time Stop. Are there typical situations where it might come in handy, or nifty tricks that become possible in a turn out of time? Does anybody remember an interesting situation involving Time Stop from some battle of his or her? In particular I'd like to learn about possible uses for the variant that ends with a clap. On Slartucker's page there is an article about defenses against ParaFF/FoD, written for Firetop Mountain. One of these involves Time Stop: 1234567 8 RH: PWPFSSS D LH: FFFFFFF F
RH: CFFSPPCW LH: CFFFFFCW
It says there: "Use your time stopped turn to gesture W W and you will have a magic mirror in place on turn 8." I tried that in a duel against myself (don't worry: only a VF with an alt that I use exclusively for exploring game mechanics), but it doesn't seem to work in RB: the Magic Mirror doesn't linger. So what is SPPc good for? Though, I'd love to learn more about scenarios involving SPPFD, too.
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Post by Dubber on Jan 23, 2011 22:24:04 GMT -5
Clapping W/W in the Time Stop turn gets you a Time Stopped mirror - which, as you saw, does not help in the scenario you describe... The Classic TaliFoD (search it in the forums) delivers a Time Stopped (SPPFD) FoD if not properly defended Time stop is handy in Melee when there is an Elemental and most folks have resistance plus low health... Time stop the Elemental & the damage gets done as in Time stop the resistance is futile. Personally, SPPc is only good as a feint or an opportunity to change gestures as any disruption lands... or if you're resistant to an existing elemental and want to deal 3 damage to all your opponents in a melee viz: games.ravenblack.net/warlocks?num=74738Where I lose loads of melee rungs to a time stopped elemental
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Post by saypin on Jan 23, 2011 22:52:12 GMT -5
In order to escape FoD with a timestop you have to gesture SPPc(c)w
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Post by Dubber on Jan 24, 2011 15:00:09 GMT -5
In order to escape FoD with a timestop you have to gesture SPPc(c)w Nope, if one of your hands is FFF'd going into Time Stop, one of your hands will be FFF'd coming out of Time Stop... LH: SPPc |c| w RH: CCCc |c| c Where the TS turn in between pipes (and technically the FFF'r can switch hands at that point, too, iirc)
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Post by ourjake on Jan 24, 2011 16:39:36 GMT -5
Personally, SPPc is only good as a feint or an opportunity to change gestures as any disruption lands... or if you're resistant to an existing elemental and want to deal 3 damage to all your opponents in a melee remember that the resist doesn't help YOU either. if you bet that they are going timestop FoD, then you can start this one turn after, and still have a counter ready in case they try anti spell (SPPFDX/PFSSSD vs. XSPPcw/XWWScw). This also means that you can go for antispell instead of time-stop for a guaranteed out i suppose, but that's no fun. also, in melee specifically, it's good for dispelling (which comes up more than it should)
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Post by mikeEB on Jan 24, 2011 19:04:15 GMT -5
SPPc seems to be most commonly relevant as an option in a FoD defense; however, I've also seen it in a few other contexts: *Banked via delay. If you need to scrub a delay weave for some reason, DWSSSPPC may be viable. *Landing a banked spell. I believe this the explanation behind the 'time stopped with a banked FoD' game. *Time Stop Stab or monster time stop, for forcing through that last point of damage. Not common but obviously game-ending. *Disease defense. Get paralyzed on SP, then if they clap disease you clap time stop next turn and dispel.
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Post by ourjake on Jan 26, 2011 9:06:31 GMT -5
i hadn't thought about the disease defense. that's pretty cool.
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Post by ellipsis on Jan 27, 2011 17:59:33 GMT -5
In almost all cases, SPPFD will turn out to be more useful than SPPc, I think, because time stop is really an offensive spell - it allows you to complete a spell one turn faster (before your opponent can finish a counter), gives you one turn of hidden gestures (allowing you to feint), and if you time it right, allows you to push through one unblockable attack. If you're using time stop defensively, you probably could have done something else with those five turns just as effectively, so presumably you're acting defensively because you got caught off-guard halfway through the spell. In that case you can use it to complete a counter, disruption, or dispel faster, but most of these situations SPPFD is still better. The only time I'd really use SPPc is if I were going to gesture a clap anyway (which would usually be for dispel).
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utis
Ronin Warlock
longing to see were it but the smoke leaping up from his land
Posts: 29
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Post by utis on Jan 28, 2011 17:07:09 GMT -5
Thank you, all!
Dubber, I looked for "TaliFoD" in the forums and on Slartucker's page, but I found under that name only a weave that ends with PDWPP on the other hand.
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Post by mikeEB on Jan 28, 2011 19:09:42 GMT -5
Thank you, all! Dubber, I looked for "TaliFoD" in the forums and on Slartucker's page, but I found under that name only a weave that ends with PDWPP on the other hand. That's the specific TaliFoD weave, but we also use the term to refer to several unfoldings of PWPF/xxxP. He was specifically referring to the PWPF/SP case. The other common TaliFoD unfolding is PWPFSSS/PDPP to stop dispel. Given that dispel is the only way to defend the PDWP version from certain positions and the better responses from others are not widely known, TaliFoD is often deadly to intermediate players and occasionally dangerous to the best.
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Post by salvor on Mar 6, 2011 16:32:04 GMT -5
btw, SPPc-Timestop is also useful in Biologin's FoD-defence (in case you are facing FoD from defensive WW/xP - position) WWSPPCDPW PPSDFCDDD
vs
FFFFFFFFF PWPFSSSD
You have 1 in 4 chance for surviving here. (FIrst 50/50 goes from charm-targetting, second from time-stop-invisibility gamble)
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Post by BioLogIn on Mar 6, 2011 16:45:22 GMT -5
salvor It is nor exactly right to call it "BioLogIn's defence", although I did came up with it by myself and I posted it in that parafod escape project thread. If I recall correctly, it was you to mention that this defence was mentioned in one of Taliesin's articles ) Nothing is new under the moon.
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Post by salvor on Mar 7, 2011 6:59:33 GMT -5
Actually I mentioned that Slartucker mentioned similar defence in that position: WWSPPFD XXFFFFF
And that's the route they were playing, as I suppose noone considered WWS/XPS-wave before your post. So I insist on the name "Biologin's defence")
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utis
Ronin Warlock
longing to see were it but the smoke leaping up from his land
Posts: 29
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Post by utis on Mar 7, 2011 10:09:16 GMT -5
btw, SPPc-Timestop is also useful in Biologin's FoD-defence (in case you are facing FoD from defensive WW/xP - position) WWSPPCDPW PPSDFCDDD
vs
FFFFFFFFF PWPFSSSD
You have 1 in 4 chance for surviving here. (FIrst 50/50 goes from charm-targetting, second from time-stop-invisibility gamble) I have a feeling that I'm going to really embarrass myself very much with the following question, but I seem to be somewhat slow today: without paracognosis, what is the second 50/50 from Time Stop invisibility? Wouldn't the warlock with the ParaFoD simply cast at nobody on the turn of the clap and paralyse on the next not Time Stopped turn, i.e. on the P?
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Post by mikeEB on Mar 7, 2011 12:10:37 GMT -5
The second 50-50 is between Time Stop and Invisibility.
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