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Post by boomfrog on Dec 19, 2008 4:40:34 GMT -5
I like the basic idea, although the first matches are going to be a bit rough as people learn. I defiantly want to try, probably Xade and I will have a go at it. I know you said play before commenting, but I don't think playing will help me comment on a spell I defiantly won't choose.
If I have a group of spells that flow into each other well then I can weave those spells on both hands. If I choose para on one hand, I still need a full complement of spells for my off hand. just because Para can occupy all of one hands time does not mean it is worth half your points. I think the origonal 6 points was about right. 16 points is equal to just banning it from the game, which I think is what many people prefer frankly.
Also I think FoD isn't actually used that much, it should be about 4
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Post by xade on Dec 19, 2008 9:11:55 GMT -5
The thing about FoD... it doesn't need to be cast often, just once. And the threat (or lack of a threat) can have a huge impact on how games are played. PW alone is enough to get me planning a potential out to the FoD...
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Post by boomfrog on Dec 19, 2008 10:58:23 GMT -5
Ok, Ill concede that bit about FoD, it is a powerful threat. And my initial reaction to para's price was too strong. 16 is too high, but 6 is too low. Maybe 8-10?
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taliesin
Ronin Warlock
Grand Master
Posts: 156
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Post by taliesin on Dec 19, 2008 11:01:32 GMT -5
If I have a group of spells that flow into each other well then I can weave those spells on both hands. If I choose para on one hand, I still need a full complement of spells for my off hand. just because Para can occupy all of one hands time does not mean it is worth half your points. I think the origonal 6 points was about right. 16 points is equal to just banning it from the game, which I think is what many people prefer frankly. Also I think FoD isn't actually used that much, it should be about 4 You're misunderstanding the game balance here. You only need paralysis and Finger of Death to kill in eight turns from the start of the game. There are ways of stopping this reliably, but they rely heavily on a) having paralysis yourself or b) having blindness AND either PDWP or PSDD. (Blindness is generally considered weak, so it's unlikely to be picked except if people are considering FoD escape). Given that spell choice is limited, you could also add c) having Antispell AND a disruption or WWS when they do not have WPP. Without these, the paralyser will generally manage at least 1 chance in 4 of killing you with FoD just from the opening, and the level of risk you can expose him to in return will be more limited with a restricted spellbook. Trying to fight paralysis without using paralysis once the para chain has got under way usually requires WPP, PSDF, DPP, PSDD (if you get paralysed into that and can't cast it, you can't break the paralysis) and PSFW. That's 22 points of spells. ParaFoD has been the bane of the game for a long time. It doesn't require much skill to go for it, but it takes a lot of skill to consistently escape it, and a good chunk of the spellbook. FoD, also, is actually quite commonly used. I seem to remember calculating at one point that I was finishing 10-15% of my games with it, and I preferred rarer variations to force it than ParaFoD. It's a very viable and dangerous spell, and it is, again, a lot more dangerous when the other person lacks access to half the resources they would usually use to stop it.
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Post by boomfrog on Dec 22, 2008 4:13:15 GMT -5
Well if someone spends 22 points on para+FoD then they don't have anything else significant I am fairly certain they would lose much more then half their games. FoD is a great spell and deserves a high cost. Para is also powerful and demands a high cost, but 16 is too much.
How many points would para cost if FoD didn't exist? Every other deadly spell can be countered with WPP while your being F-ed. Obviously this still sucks if you didn't pick WPP but there are a lot of match-ups like that.
Maybe set the price of para at 8-10 and charge a 6-8 point "combo fee" for taking both para and FoD? As long as we have only a few combo fees it won't be too complicated. The current situation is essentially banning para entirely.
On a side note I think magic missile should cost 1 point. Casting accidentally isn't that bad. If you didn't buy it it's probably because you didn't buy charm. Making them free is like making it a mandatory purchase.
Xade and i have played once and our observations are as follows:
1) Goblins are freaking mean if your opponent doesn't have charm monster.
Eleven goblins died in the course of this research.
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Post by xade on Dec 22, 2008 8:14:14 GMT -5
The lucky ones got missiled or stabbed... the unlucky ones scored an elemental.
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