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Post by BioLogIn on Jun 11, 2009 5:40:27 GMT -5
Okay, let's talk some about 2009 Tourney. Refer to discussion of 2008 tourney: slarty.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=2008tourney&action=display&thread=262and slarty.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=2008tourney&action=display&thread=2611. System. Last year we used modified (3 opponents per round) swiss 4 rounds + top4 seeded single elimination. As far as I recollect, everyone was ok with this system - it allows everybody to play a significant number of games at reasonable pace. I'd suggest using it again, but if anyone has other suggestions, please suggest ) 2. Time frame. We used to start tourneys in the beginning of September, which implies starting registration in the middle of August. 2 weeks per swiss round, 2 months till play-off, about 3 months for entire tourney. 3. Clans and RP. Do we want to try and some clan\RP action to the fray? 4. Tournament officials - if anyone is willing to step up and run the tourney - it would be great. Otherwise I'll 'have' to run it. I'd still prefer to have somebody as a non-participating judge, to minimize chances of something like rasteroid incident to happed. 5. Fantasy teams. If we want them, someone (other then me) has to step up and do it. That's how I see it now. If someone wants to suggest anything different (team tourney? no tourney at all? tourney in winter?) please share your opinions. |
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Post by xade on Jun 11, 2009 8:46:01 GMT -5
If the need for a judge arrives, we can always run with the council of the elders + bio - to come to a conclusion. Surely between the five of us we can come to a solid and unbiased resolution to any situation.  |
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Post by Dubber on Jun 11, 2009 9:32:03 GMT -5
Surely between the five of us we can come to a solid and unbiased resolution to any situation. Sure, as long as I win everything will be fine... rofl |
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Post by BioLogIn on Jun 11, 2009 9:42:57 GMT -5
Well, the thing is, it is very likely that there will be participants that doesn't belong to any league clan. It is important that they won't feel like entering some kind of League side event, where they aren't represented in jury.
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Post by xade on Jun 11, 2009 10:28:28 GMT -5
While true, I feel that we have at minimum, a vested interest in this community, and also an interest in remain of honor. But I can see how it could be construed in that way. (Particularly with dubber and Succat getting a vote!) Fine, how about you, me and Freesoul form a commity.  |
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Post by nawglan on Jun 11, 2009 12:38:19 GMT -5
hmm. I really should write up a website to run a fantasy warlocks league. Things I want on such a site: * ability to trade players at any time. * automatic score updates as games are reported * login system etc so you can manage your team * roster views * stat views shows all players participating * mebby some kind of handicapping -edit- will look at www.scoreos.org tonight when I get home. Might be able to modify it to work. |
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Post by Dubber on Jun 12, 2009 7:49:01 GMT -5
But I can see how it could be construed in that way. (Particularly with dubber and Succat getting a vote!) You wound me, Xade. By now one would think I've demonstrated my bonafides (latin for good & loyal)  |
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Post by toyotami on Jun 12, 2009 9:24:56 GMT -5
Yeah, i'll take three dubbers over one xade vote. dubber has scruples. Xade fantasizes about promising surrender then stabbing a guy to death.
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Post by xade on Jun 12, 2009 21:33:02 GMT -5
Yeah, i'll take three dubbers over one xade vote. dubber has scruples. Xade fantasizes about promising surrender then stabbing toyotami to death. edited for accuracy... |
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Post by xade on Jun 12, 2009 21:33:59 GMT -5
But I can see how it could be construed in that way. (Particularly with dubber and Succat getting a vote!) You wound me, Xade. By now one would think I've demonstrated my bonafides (latin for good & loyal) t'was the point behind the original suggestion... I think we all have. |
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Post by succat on Jun 13, 2009 15:08:18 GMT -5
I like the Tourney idea. The only thing I don't like is for things to drag out for months and months just to reveal what we already know - that the winner is most likely gonna be Bio, Toyo or someone with pretty high Elo.
What I suggest is something different - some way to find who is the 'best' in their respective categories.
I don't have all of the details worked out yet, but I would suggest something akin to 'weight classes' like in MMA or Boxing. Maybe something like the following...
Class 1 = 0 - 1599 Elo
Class 2 = 1600 - 1699 Elo
Class 3 = 1700 - 1799 Elo
Class 4 = 1800 and above Elo
So for all who sign up for Tourney...
Elo is taken at the beginning of Tourney, and everyone is assigned to a Class based on their Elo.
Round 1 - Each player plays 1 game against everyone in their Class.
Round 2 - the 4 players with the most wins from the previous round will battle - #1 vs #4, and #2 vs #3. (See additional details below)
Round 3, Championship Round - the 2 players who won in the previous round will play each other for the championship of their Class.
Other details still to be worked out....
At the beginning of Round 2, players are first ranked by 'wins' and secondly by 'turns'. In other words, players to win their games in less turns have a slight upper hand.
Example - 1st Round is complete in Class 2 and here are the results that matter:
#1 PlayerA - 6 wins
#2 PlayerB - 5 wins
#3 PlayerC - 4 wins - 180 turns
#4 PlayerD - 4 wins - 200 turns
#5 PlayerE - 4 wins - 220 turns
#6 PlayerF - 4 wins - 240 turns
Now, before Round 2 can officially start, PlayerE and PlayerF will need to play against each other and the winner will play against PlayerD to find out who takes #4 spot. Once all 4 spots are established...
#1 spot will face #4 spot, and #2 spot will face #3 spot. So the incentive is to get to the #1 spot so that you can eliminate the (possibly) weakest opponent in the #4 spot. The warlock who thinks he has done well just by getting to the #4 spot may still have to play a possible PlayerE or PlayerF just to hold his spot.
I wonder if something like this plan would speed things along a little faster and still give pretty accurate results about what warlock is basically the best in their division. Maybe this would be more of a Mini-Tourney or something, I don't know. Again, this is just a rough idea I had, and a lot more details would need to be hashed out I'm sure, but let me know what you think...
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Post by maknud on Jun 13, 2009 22:08:00 GMT -5
Some of your ideas seem fine to me. I hate the "fewer turns is better" idea. "Weight classes" have the obvious problem that weight classes usually have... I would like to play in the highest class no matter what, and someone who just wants to win a class should dive beforehand... For accurate results about which warlock is best, just use ELO. That's not what a tournament is for, ever, even if it claims to be - there're just too few trials. Tournaments are for showing off, to others and yourself. |
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Post by mikeEB on Jun 13, 2009 23:44:39 GMT -5
I don't have all of the details worked out yet, but I would suggest something akin to 'weight classes' like in MMA or Boxing. Maybe something like the following... Class 1 = 0 - 1599 Elo Class 2 = 1600 - 1699 Elo Class 3 = 1700 - 1799 Elo Class 4 = 1800 and above Elo Remind me to throw a couple of ladder matches right before the tournament to get down to the top of Class 1 rather than the very bottom of Class 2. |
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Post by succat on Jun 14, 2009 0:25:31 GMT -5
Some of your ideas seem fine to me. I hate the "fewer turns is better" idea. "Weight classes" have the obvious problem that weight classes usually have... I would like to play in the highest class no matter what, and someone who just wants to win a class should dive beforehand... The 'fewer turns' idea is just one idea, it could be anything, really. Maybe it could be based on how many 'kills' you've got. Or just throw out 'fewer turns' and 'kills' and make several warlocks that come in even at the last #spot all play each other for that #spot, I don't know. As for a player throwing away some of their Elo just to try to get into a lower Class, I don't think that's gonna happen. If you are a low 1700 player, for example, and you 'cut weight', so to speak, to make the 1600's Class, you are still going to be battling very tough opponents at the top of that class in the high 1600's - it's not going to be a walk in the park for you. I'm more concerned about Alt's coming in to the 0-1599 Class, guys who are really much higher in Elo than that, but maybe thinking they have us fooled. For accurate results about which warlock is best, just use ELO. That's not what a tournament is for, ever, even if it claims to be - there're just too few trials. Tournaments are for showing off, to others and yourself. Yea, I hear that. I don't have all of the details worked out yet, but I would suggest something akin to 'weight classes' like in MMA or Boxing. Maybe something like the following... Class 1 = 0 - 1599 Elo Class 2 = 1600 - 1699 Elo Class 3 = 1700 - 1799 Elo Class 4 = 1800 and above Elo Remind me to throw a couple of ladder matches right before the tournament to get down to the top of Class 1 rather than the very bottom of Class 2. Again, I don't think it's going to be so easy even if you're facing warlocks with a bit less Elo than you. Anyway, there is no way to make everything completely perfect and fair for all. You could come up with even more Classes and separate them by 50 Elo, or you could do away with all Classes like before and just put everyone against everyone and see what happens. The problem with that is, some guys are never gonna have a chance in hell to win. But, I'd be very curious to see who would win the 1600 Class, for example. The other thing I was pushing for was a way too shorten the entire Tourney somehow... Less games! Too many games and it feels like baseball  |
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Post by ExDeath on Jun 14, 2009 17:09:25 GMT -5
Re: nawglan
I'm not sure what kind of "fantasy teams" you expect to build, since the number of players in the fantasy league would be nearly equal to the number of participants in the tourney. Would everybody's roster include 1 1/2 players? I think the old way it used to be done was fine, with everyone being worth X points and you need to stay below Y cap.
Re: Bio
I can be called upon as an impartial judge for games that go to time, but I don't think I would want to play as large a part as I did last year, checking on people and issuing warnings etc. If you send me a PM every time a game needs a ruling, I will definitely check it out and reply within a couple days.
The system we used last year was very smooth, and I think it should be used again. Most ideas based on weight classes or divisions won't work, because frankly we can't expect the turnout to be much bigger than 30 people. Right now there are 10 active players from 1700-1800, 5 in the class above that, 9 below. You *could* make two seperate tourneys though, one for under 1700 and the other open to anyone. That way the underdogs can compete in the big tourney if they want, or try to win their own division. However, I don't think more than two divisions will be possible.
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