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Poison
Oct 26, 2007 1:56:04 GMT -5
Post by awall on Oct 26, 2007 1:56:04 GMT -5
It's been far too long since there was any strategy discussion here... games.ravenblack.net/warlocks?num=61034&full=1So I just discovered how brutal Poison is. It's harder to cure than Disease and because it doesn't end with a clap, it leaves you with one hand free to keep up the pressure on your opponent. From what I can tell, if you can get it off with any initiative at all (i.e. not get hit by a disruption the turn you cast it) it's fairly likely to be fatal, or at least leave your opponent with only a single 50/50 chance to escape. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately), Poison is pretty tricky to get off. DW is not a particularly common set of gestures, and DWW is pretty difficult weave to abort without losing a bunch of initiative. DWW off of Permanency seems to work if you can keep them busy with your other hand, but other than that, I've never really figured out any good ways to get into it. Has anybody found an effective way to use this spell?
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Poison
Oct 26, 2007 2:35:03 GMT -5
Post by xade on Oct 26, 2007 2:35:03 GMT -5
yeah, it can be pretty devastating to be hit with.
One thing I've found is using it out of Invis. For the most part, when you see a D as the first turn, it looks like a disruption, or lightning.
You can even further disguise it by throwing a P on the 2nd turn on invis...
Are you going amniesia?
PPws:
DWWFWD xPxx
oh, it wasn't an amniesia. perhaps it was lightning? perhaps that left hand F, in conjunction with the right hand P might mean an ogre on the next turn... or even a troll... reckon you should counter that? or perhaps the bolt that might be coming on the next turn?
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Poison
Oct 26, 2007 2:36:49 GMT -5
Post by xade on Oct 26, 2007 2:36:49 GMT -5
oh, and DWW makes for an excellent defensive weave in my opinion.
You can counter this turn, or the next. All the while, you're opponent has to be on his toes for the potential poison...
Pending on what's on the other hand, it can be a nifty way of claiming a little initiative back...
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Poison
Oct 26, 2007 7:07:04 GMT -5
Post by Rycchus on Oct 26, 2007 7:07:04 GMT -5
Hahaha! You did it twice! That's funny ;D
I'd usually only consider it if I'd ended up with a DWW and didn't need the counter/protection. I rarely "go for" Poison from a D in the same way that I rarely "go for" FoD from a P... you get to PWP and if the circumstances are right you go for it.
It is of course much more deadly than Disease because the DFPD/xPDW routes aren't so handy. They're unlikely to be able to Dispel undisrupted unless they do it on the way in, and that's a shocking way of losing initiative to something that hasn't even been cast yet. Disease you lose your own initiative with the clap, so they're away safe if they can lift it on the first or second turn after it hits, but Poison is one-handed. Then again, you don't have the disruptions on the way in with Poison.
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Poison
Oct 26, 2007 8:38:27 GMT -5
Post by toyotami on Oct 26, 2007 8:38:27 GMT -5
hmmm...poison...good for killing newbies. I picked off a bunch with it...offer 5 hit points in exchange for poison...they'd be lucky to get out of it...even if they do your initiative can get the 5 back.
Against a good player...it takes too long. FoD you can get out in 8 turns. Poison is 6 plus 6...hard unless you have complete momentum or get them completely by surprise (see Xade's inivisipizzi)
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Poison
Oct 27, 2007 14:02:58 GMT -5
Post by awall on Oct 27, 2007 14:02:58 GMT -5
I'd usually only consider it if I'd ended up with a DWW and didn't need the counter/protection. I rarely "go for" Poison from a D in the same way that I rarely "go for" FoD from a P... you get to PWP and if the circumstances are right you go for it. Yes, but that's true for most spells in warlocks. I never "go for" any spells more than three gestures long; I wait until I see an opening and then figure out what the biggest spell I can slip into it is. The reason Poison worked in this case was that I had DW (for Perm), DWW (because I was considering countering the PDWP or going for Protection), and then I realized that neither of those would work and went for the big prize. Then again, you don't have the disruptions on the way in with Poison. The disruptions are the only thing that makes Disease worth it. It's less that you "go for" Disease, more that you go for maladroit, decide that you want to follow it up with Para (maybe you have a monster on the table or something), and then realize that you all of the sudden have DSFFF and evaluate whether clapping would be worth it. It's telling of how situational a spell Disease is that even when you're at 5 out of the 6 gestures, it's still often not worth completing. If you didn't get the disruptions on the way in, the spell would absolutely never get used.
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Poison
Oct 28, 2007 6:26:24 GMT -5
Post by Citanest on Oct 28, 2007 6:26:24 GMT -5
Poison is a really great spell, I use it relatively often.
I find that the biggest benefit comes not from landing it, but from your opponent seeing the threat begin as an esoteric "he'll never go for that" to a "hang on, the cheeky blighter might be going for it" to a "woah, I better drop everything and sort this out!"
Usually, when you have a loose D, your opponent immediately prepares for DPP or DSF. This rarely comes in the form of an attack, but normally in a modification of their spellflow to absorb an Amnesia. This means that dummying to DW doesn't waste all your initiative.
I disagree that Poison is hard to abort. DWFFD, DWWS, DWWFP. Every turn until you reach DWWFW you can change plan.
Poison is remarkably resilient to Fear and Maladroit, and to Amnesia on turn 2. I often find that If I can reach DWW unmolested, my opponent is forced to prepare a counter spell which I can sometimes prevent, or at least dummy to WFP and get some initiative.
If it does land, I like following with DWWFWDDc if I can't stop my opponent disenchanting the poison. You find that you lose very little initiative by clapping, and often that 5 points is enough to win a game.
But as you have already discovered, if a poison does land it is highly likely that you can make it stick and win the game anyway...
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Derfel
Ronin Warlock
Did I Do That?
Troublemaker
Posts: 283
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Poison
Oct 28, 2007 10:21:33 GMT -5
Post by Derfel on Oct 28, 2007 10:21:33 GMT -5
Whoa... I thought you folk were talking about this? POISON!
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Poison
Nov 10, 2007 13:55:39 GMT -5
Post by awall on Nov 10, 2007 13:55:39 GMT -5
I'm really starting to warm up to this spell. It's actually a bit easier to get off than I'd thought; while DW doesn't occur all that often, it is very innocuous and doesn't often elicit any sort of response until DWWF, at which point your opponent likely has to drop everything to defend it.
It's sorta like FoD in that if your opponent doesn't start defending early on, it's usually fatal. If you don't have at least PD the turn of Poison, you're probably dead. Paralyzing your opponent to P and hitting them with Poison also seems like a pretty sure way to do them in.
I'm gonna have to start considering this spell more often when I find myself with DW or DWW.
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