Post by Dubber on Mar 28, 2012 22:29:09 GMT -5
Dubber> So about the upcoming Clan option(s)... what are people thinking for how to decide on building/picking a Clan?
Krossfire> ASS all the way!
shogouki> Sounds nice. Now, I still need to improve clout
Mann> whats the benefit of clans in this game anyway?
Jes> clans aren't in the game yet
Jes> so don't know the benefits if any
Dubber> I've been wondering the same thing, though...
Dubber> The only real reason for clans are for the little guys to mutually protect against the powerful
Dubber> So, by rights, this means the top 3-5 players (Sei, Psy, Me, Kross, Cal? Jes? Hal?) should not be allowed into a Clan
shogouki> I see. Sounds nice
Dubber> Conversely, it behooves sycophants to grab a powerful player's coattails and ride his/her successes and claim sybaritic victories
Krossfire> I would make a noob clan.
Dubber> i think 'sybaritic' is the wrong word there...
Dubber> Right, see I'd support an automatic noob clan membership for people just starting out
shogouki> And they're auto removed at some point?
Dubber> the problem with clans is one clan will inevitably becopme the most powerful and wreck the game for everyone else
Dubber> I'd say the noob clan is just a support system until the noob decides to transfer into another Clan
Krossfire> monopoly auto-breakage?
Dubber> but really there cannot be more than 2 or 3 clans, we do not h ave enough playerbase yet
Mann> and portals would also wreak the game
Krossfire> I think if clans are not handled carefully, it can break the game.
Dubber> I would suggest that the top 2 or 3 players (according to weighted production capacity (cities, farms, wizards) are auto-removed from whatever Clan they are in and set up as a standalone player
Dubber> dmmit, I was typing tooo much and missed my Extraction+autodeposit
Krossfire> chat distraction for the win!
Dubber> I think the randomly moving Portal will actually make for 'better' gameplay (better defenses all around, at least)
shogouki> Portal? Will there be cake with it?
Krossfire> no man, the cake's a deception...
Dubber> I hope TheGridAdmin is capturing this discussion somehow
shogouki> Who?
Dubber> Succat (the game creator)
Krossfire> I think he is...if not, someone should save it and post to the forum...
Dubber> Sorry, didn't mean to derail it
shogouki> Okay. I just never heard that term for him before
Dubber> TheGridAdmin is his username
Krossfire> if the top players are blocked from clans, it should be based off of the top player, so in situations like this, the rest of the players can band together against him
Mann> So say if seiizhi wanted to wipe the grid, he can take out all his oppenets and work down from there
Krossfire> what now?
shogouki> I like it like that
Dubber> Sei could do that now....
Dubber> there is no reason Clans cannot work together
Dubber> but the lone wolf (wolves) would still have more flexibility on who they attack
Dubber> The trick with Clans is to have enough members that there is almost always one member online at any given time
shogouki> I see. I think clans might work better than the current clout, actually
Krossfire> or players are assigned a points value based on wizards/famrs/cities, etc, and clans can only have a specific number of points
Krossfire> and you can... I dont know buy more points with gold
Dubber> I think we should all hash more out about Clan functions and prooible ways to leverage and disrupt Clan strengths
Krossfire> what is thought of my idea?
Dubber> How would the ejection of a member work when the points value exceeds the limit?
Krossfire> you couldn't join, I guess
Mann> lol sho
Dubber> Woo 5 Gold Blessing! Thnaks shogouki!
Krossfire> dude, massive blessing.
ioiooiioio> good job sho
Hallelujah> hahaha
shogouki> No problem
Dubber> but what happens when the Clan points exceed the limit due to internal growth and resource expansion?
Krossfire> hmm... good point
Krossfire> I would say that noone new can join, but noone gets kicked
Dubber> Then the Clan can become 'too powerful' (nigh unbeatable)
Krossfire> or clan functions are suspended until its filled or something
Dubber> Personally, I figure OurJake would be a logical noob Clan member as 'NOOB TUTOR'
Krossfire> *until its got enough points quota
Dubber> iiiinteresting... I'm still dohting around with dual command entries... I do the same thing at the same time on both machines, but the craptop is significantly slower... I wonder what campus IT did
Dubber> what? I cant say fa.rt, but a can say craptop?!
Krossfire> crap dude....
Dubber> One of teh keys to Clans is there needs to be a way to allow for double- (and triple-) agents...
Dubber> a way for at least one member of each Clan to also be a member of another
Krossfire> (and qudruple-)
Krossfire> (and quintuple-)
Dubber> Oh, doh, Seiizhi wtf dude
Dubber> that was a crazy move
Krossfire> Seiizhi! What have you learned about gambling??
shogouki> Lol fail
Dubber> > Seiizhi loses 40,000,000 gold, gambling! Total monies: $323,328
Dubber> Of course, you made almost 40M since this morning, right?
Krossfire> that's the biggest loss ever, isn't it?
Dubber> I believe it is
shogouki> It would've been the biggest win if he won
Dubber> My ~20M loss was until just now
Seiizhi> And for once, it doesn't bother me.
Dubber> Is my ~26M win still the record for wins?
Seiizhi> If I won, I'd have gambled the 80m.
Krossfire> I think so
Dubber> Steel Cojones
Seiizhi> I only did it because I'm playing another game now. I'm starting care less.
sappharos> so i just woke up in bed with my clothes on and pr00n on the monitor and no idea what happened
sappharos> i must have been tired
shogouki> Well, Mann is now ranked 6 in the Ranking system, and we were discussing how clans would work
Krossfire> wow saph, haha
Psykosis> Not sure if square count should be the primary measure of power though..
Psykosis> For balancing purposes.
Jes> but with portals coming, I'm going to be more hesitant to sell
Psykosis> Yeah - the portals coudl get pretty wild as far as defense goes...
Jes> that was unproductive
Dubber> What was unproductive?
Dubber> you're up 6M
CyberCitizen> Gambling lol
Jes> gambled to where if I had lost I would've been at 0
Jes> didn't gain anything from where I started
Dubber> ah, yes, I am familiar with that location
CyberCitizen> Lol
Dubber> hence my singular lack of gambles lately
Psykosis> Statistically, that should happen if it is truly 50% probability...
Krossfire> I've run some numbers and come up with an effective gambleing system that will mak emoney.
Psykosis> Is the system not truly consistently 50% probability?
Krossfire> I mean from here.
Krossfire> *on here
Alpha37> What's your system?
Krossfire> seecret
Krossfire> and like half the people on here use it
Krossfire> so, more accurately, I thought out why its effective
Alpha37> Fibonacci, doubling, tripling...?
Krossfire> you start with a small(ish) number. if you win, good, restart with that smallish number.
Krossfire> if you lose, double it and try again
Krossfire> if you win that, start over with your smallish numebr
Alpha37> So doubling
Alpha37> cool
Krossfire> yeah.
Krossfire> it works cause math.
Jes> doesn't always work
Krossfire> it really depends on your starting number how well it works
Alpha37> Minimizes chance of loss
Alpha37> still same expected value though i believe
Krossfire> well... lemme see if I can explain it in my half-asleep state.
Psykosis> Unless it is not truly a 50% probability of winning, it shouldn't vary, regardless of system..
Krossfire> say you start with 25000. you lose. you gamble 50000 and you win. net win of 25000
Psykosis> It would tend towards the center point - e.g. no gain/loss.
Krossfire> you lose the 50000? gamble 100000. win that, net win of 50000
Jes> would only be a net win of 25000
Jes> if you lose the 25k and 50k
Krossfire> the reason this works is because there is a 1/2^n (n being the number of doubles you can afford) chance of losing all your money
Alpha37> The thing is, what point do you stop doubling on a losing streak?
Krossfire> yes, this is true
Krossfire> that's up to you
Krossfire> its why gambling is so superstitious around here
Jes> the net win (with doubling) would always be your starting gamble
Krossfire> ....
Krossfire> the only option is to 2.5 it then!
Dubber> 9 or 10 losses in a row will wipe you out
Alpha37> I've simulated fibonacci, doubling, and tripling gambling strategies
Alpha37> and have thousands of autogenerated graphs
Alpha37> you pretty much always lose all of your money in the end
Krossfire> are they all breaking even?
Dubber> I've had loss streaks of 12 and win streaks of 8 (gambling everything to nothing and wins of 100 gold)
Krossfire> or, I guess, losing all your money
Dubber> every toss is 50/50... the patterns are merely your mind's attempt to explaina dn identify a pattern
Dubber> it's what brains do
CyberCitizen> Lol nice dubbed
CyberCitizen> Dubber
Alpha37> The best strategy is probably not to play
Krossfire> yeah, I know that. I think I have an ok grasp on probablilty
CyberCitizen> I'm mad at sho, we had (somewhat) of an alliance...
Krossfire> no, no, the best strategy is to convince others to play!
Dubber> That's the lesson of human history: Alliances are made to be broken.
