D/S opening...

[xade]

Awwww... I just read one of those papers, and I'm slightly saddend by my favorite opening being called a weaker cousin.

I quite like its versitility, especially its adaptability to the D/P opening.

DW
SW

Is prolly my most favorite, with it's ability to threaten a mix of fear, blindness, counterspells, or occationally the lucky delay.

It works ... well against an amniesia

DWFF (DWSS is you're feeling ballsy)
DWPP
SWPP
SWDD

all good fun.

I find that it does tend to get pushed on the defensive against a P/S opening... which I find a lot of people opening with these days...

Ah well, if I ever do make it to "master" status, I am *so* calling DW/SW as my signature opening...

[Slartucker]

How do those work well against an amnesia? All of those options hand your opponent a free invis, and unless you go DWFFF it's in fact a free delay invis. DWFFF isn't too bad, but it leaves things up in the air, and you in the dark.

[ExDeath]

All I can say about this is I've experimented opening with Clap of Lightning and found it to be rather clunky. Actually, it usually doesn't cost me the 5 damage I get out of it, but occasionally I will just find myself in a terrible terrible position. Trust me, I've tried all this stuff, and found it to be unsatisfactory against DP/PS. D/S is actually really saucy against DS/PS, but who plays that anymore?

Edit: Oh, and I should add, Clap is my favorite lategame finisher, so being denied its power later sucks balls.

[lokiv]

You're talking about a D/W opening, exdeath? Everything on turn 3 ruins that so I don't see much of a different way unless you opened W/F in a parafc game and paralyze yourself. That's the kind of jank tactic I should try out.

I can't see that working out in your favor if their turn 4 play is the standard charm or ogre.

[Slartucker]

Presumably ExDeath is talking about the SWDD line Xade mentioned above, which is not quite as grotesquely absurd.

[ExDeath]

I've done it a lot with S/S, trying SWDDc/SWPPc. You can actually also go invis from this line, 1 turn behind your opponent, but usually what happens is they get a free delay while you get 5 damage and the initiative. I believed myself to be better in these situations but I'm not sure. Sometimes delay just wins the game, so, going for the invis yourself isn't such a bad plan.

[Slartucker]

When I first started playing that line was very common (out of S/P, though: SWDDc/PWPPc) as a response to DPPws/PSDws when the fear and amnesia trade. But I disagree with your analysis of it. They may or may not get a free delay, as you can cast cDPW the turn delay is cast -- the one thing that justifies that horrible clap in the first place. But they have quite a bit of initiative.

In all likelihood the defender will complete cDPW. Not starting it basically hands your opponent the banked antispell, while dummying it provides no real advantage: DPP has no sensible targets and DPS is not a noticeable improvement on DPW in this case. Your opponent meanwhile is not committed to delay and can switch to any number of potent invis weaves, with a very high chance of success given your delapidated spellflow. Particularly dangerous is the fact that if you do complete dispel, you don't even see shields or missiles cast by your opponent on the last turn they are invisible. While you can always get lucky and defend exactly what they try to do, more often -- they win.

In my experience, against D/P, it's usually better to not cast fear in the first place and go SWW/xWP, although from any opening other than S/W you can lose a few points of life that route.

[awall]

Huh... I'd been under the impression that SWDDc beat DPPws. If you go with something like CDPWx/CPSDF, it's hard for your opponent to do too much scary to you. He could go for a time stopped fireball, but you're still even after your WDDc. He could try to Antispell, but he gets charmed in return, killing most of the initiative he gets. I suppose xWWS/SPFP keeps him on the offensive, but he's still five health down. Alternatively, he could go for an Ogre, although that gives away that he's not going for the standard Delay weave, so dummying the Dispel becomes viable (although you still risk a Delayed PSDF).

[Slartucker]

DPPWSXFFF...
PSDWSPWPFSSSD

SWDDCDPW_
PWPPCPSDF

If the underscore is a P or W, as is most likely, the defender here is up 5 life but has a 50-50 chance of dying. The point is that the attacker sees that charm coming -- the turn of its initial P, essentially, because what else is that hand going to do? -- and all he has to do is block that one charm to get a great advantage.

Note though the X above. The attacker can put a W there and then, if he sees a P, complete fear to squish PSD and PSF alike. This begins several possible attacks:

DPPWSWDPP
PSDWSPSFW

SWDDCDPW
PWPPCPSX

This one guarantees an ogre *and* sets the defender quite off balance, for an advantage that IMO outshines the clap.