Go for the throat

[toyotami]

Just before i sign off on this lovely long weekend here in Japan, i'd like to wax on about aggression.

As far as building an AI goes, i think the idea of giving an opponent some health in exchange for momentum must be accounted for.

Warlocks is like arm wrestling. You know when you surrender a bit of ground to lull your opponent into a false sense of security, or else to regain some energy for a burst. That's warlocks.

I am often pleased to give my opponents a monster or even a lightning bolt in exchange for momentum. I think recently i came back against Succat from 2-14(12?) down BECAUSE i had momentum at the end of his onslaught.


Anyway, back to my subject matter. The opposite can also be true. There are also times when giving away board position for opponents health is beneficial. I mean for example casting Clap Lightning to take an opponent down below 5. Or the more devestating WPFD/xWFP all out attack. Once you get an opponent down below 5 your W's become weapons rather than defenses and the momentum an opponent would usually have is neutralized.

So for players who are coming up the ranks and studying the game and also for guys thinking of code for the AI - the relatonship between momentum (which is effectively freedom of movement choice) and health points is important to consider.

That's it, Toyo signing off

[Rycchus]

You're making assumptions about your opponents in that post. You can't just "give" your opponents damage spells if they don't want to take them. They have to choose to go all-out-damage in the first place. I'm pretty sure if I opened a game with Tali or Slarty and said, "Here, have a WDDc. I'll let you cast it!" they would give me a weird look and say, "Uh... no thanks."

By all means take advantage of your oppponents' mistakes, but don't wait for them to make a mistake before making your move.

[taliesin]

I'd actually like to extend some cautious approval to this post.

A vast number of my games have seen me down on health at the mid-point, but with control via disruptions or monsters that allow me to set the pace of the game and ultimately bleed my opponent dry without ever really entirely giving up that control. You call it "momentum", I call it "initiative", but it comes down to the same thing. Gaining this becomes a subtler and subtler art as you face increasingly strong opponents.

Casting a Clap of Lightning to take an opponent below 5 is still often risky as a general case, I'd say: very often, 4 or 5 health is enough for them to be capable of reversing the damage with interest in short order. My general benchmark for CoL is 2 health, as at this point it becomes very hard to survive. (When facing a CoL into even modest initiative on my part, I usually expect to do at least seven or eight damage in return).

Get your opponent below 5 without total surrender of initiative though, and yes, it's all about the damage.

[awall]

I was once up 12-6 with a Troll. I figured CoL-ing my opponent down to 1 was worth it. Instead, I wound up losing the troll, getting charmed and paralyzed, and had my opponent cure back up to 4 health while I got pummeled down to 2 and surrendered. I detest this spell, and will only generally use it when either:

A) It will kill my opponent.
B) I need to clap anyway (PSDDC/SWDDC vs. delay, for example, which I know is a bad situation to be in in the first place).
C) In rare, rare cases when I expect my opponent to be gesturing a bunch of W's and I think I'll be able to recover painlessly (in which case, what am I doing with WDD anyway? WFP or even WDP is much better there).

[Rycchus]

I won't cast it unless it kills them - or, occasionally, to 1 health. I think even 2 is pushing it.

Of course, it all depends on their spellflow. I'd only start the D if
a) my W was a SW
b) they were disrupted in some way (amnesia) that meant they couldn't cast a W next turn - or, sometimes, that they were unlikely to
Otherwise, assuming they are low on health, which is why you're even thinking about Clap, WFP or WP (S/F) is better anyway.
I'd only do the second D if they had no W - if they have to mirror to stay alive, their spellflow is nearly as bad as yours anyway - and if they had nothing worse lined up for me.

[xade]

It depends. I'm normally happy to clap an opponent down to 3ish...

But not if I'm going to get hit by a charm/amniesia/summon on the same turn.

at the end game, a CW is way more powerful that any other time, not only are you immune to spells on that turn, but as Toyo said, those W's turn into game winning weapons.

So provided you don't get disrupted on the clap. (or yanno, two turns after), then you're laughing...

[Rycchus]

I wouldn't go so far as "way more powerful". I'd settle for "not quite as bad as it is normally".

[Derfel]

I had the Clap once. Nasty.

[xade]

derfel said:

I had the Clap once. Nasty.

uuurk...

I know I should ask, but...

it went for the throat?