Warlocks - If I had the time...

[xade]

Just to put it in context- I'm currently doing a little designing. And to get it right the first time, I want to clarify some of the intricate details so nothing bites me on the arse halfway through.

[Slartucker]

Toyotami, you greatly underestimate Haste, and I think you underestimate the triple Time Stop as well.

[xade]

Alright, you've had time enough to discuss, I'm gunna design it as follows.

Dec 22, 2009 6:18:57 GMT -5 xade said:

A couple of questions.

Consider the following effect: Timestop(3)

I would expect a spell of such magnitude to give three turns in a row, as opposed to working like haste. Any thoughts?

This will be designed to work as three turns in a row.

Secondly: Charm Person (3)

Now, I would expect this to work like Permanency- cancelling out any further attempts to inflict a mindspell. Unless of course, you were taking a timestopped turn - then I would expect it to get cancelled out (Since no effects are in play!) - though perhaps it should still override as Permanency does?

This will work like permancy, in that any enchantment will be overruled by the 3 turn charm (And in the example of the Paramancers rule this month, would mean that it would override any enchantment thrown on the second turn of para(2)'s existance.

Speaking of such, if you get hit by permanent amnesia the same turn you cast a time stop, does the permanent amnesia get cancelled out if you charm yourself on the timestopped turn?

Yes. Sure will.

Next, hand manipulation during a hasted turn- are we happy with how this works? Or would it be better to still chose your effect, even though you have no moves to enter?

Sorry haste- You're getting blammed. Para and Charm will screw you up. As it should!

Countering and mirroring a freshly created monster (ie- Targetting LH: xade) - Are we happy with that interpretation? or would the ability to counter a monster be a good thing? I'm thinking it would be.

Monsters rejoyce- you can be countered when cast!

Targetting banked spells- would be nice yeah?

Nice indeed. Make it so.

Summoning at a monster that was charmed away from you on the same turn- should you lose both monsters?

honestly, I'm still not sure on this one. I'm thinking you would lose both as the owner of the second monster would be determined by the owner of the first- measured just prior to them attacking.

I think that's it for now. Tally ho!

Tally Ho indeed!

[BioLogIn]

Monsters rejoyce- you can be countered when cast!

You mean one can summon monster with one hand and counter at it with the other? Not sure this is a good addition.

One thing I think should be added\fixed - monster should die if it has no master at the end of turn. This way, if a monster is summoned at nobody AND charmed on the same turn, it survives. It adds some nice mind games. Although it opens a window to summon an "uncounterable" goblin\troll\giant as well, so it may be not a very good idea... need to test that.

[ourjake]

the only one that should affect would be the goblins right? everything else would have to have double P's to summon and charm at the same time

[BioLogIn]

Ourjake
yes, unless a (targeted) banked PSDD is involved =)

[mikeEB]

Dec 23, 2009 23:34:26 GMT -5 Slartucker said:

Toyotami, you greatly underestimate Haste, and I think you underestimate the triple Time Stop as well.

Now that I think about it, triple time stop sounds absolutely disgusting if you can fork the time stop with any other threat. If your opponent doesn't have a counter or disruption ready for the turn after the timestop ends, you get a free antispell-protected anything (double antispell and giant seem reasonable). If your opponent has a mindspell ready other than amnesia, you preempt it with your own time-stopped mindspell and summon or FoD on the other hand. If your opponent has a WW counterspell, you can para/ogre or amnesia/ogre anyway even through they end up with protection. This also means your opponent can't have both amnesia and counterspell ready, or you paralyze their WW hand to prevent the amnesia and do your thing with the other hand anyway.

Of special note is the SWD/PWP line, which gets a guaranteed kill against some lead-in gestures (notably F/XP where X isn't D or P) and a single 50-50 against others (notably the WW/WW defense.). And you know in advance whether it's a sure kill.



Finallly, if your opponent has 5 health or less, >>>/WFP simply kills them.

[xade]

Jan 2, 2010 2:27:52 GMT -5 BioLogIn said:

Monsters rejoyce- you can be countered when cast!

You mean one can summon monster with one hand and counter at it with the other? Not sure this is a good addition.

One thing I think should be added\fixed - monster should die if it has no master at the end of turn. This way, if a monster is summoned at nobody AND charmed on the same turn, it survives. It adds some nice mind games. Although it opens a window to summon an "uncounterable" goblin\troll\giant as well, so it may be not a very good idea... need to test that.

Really? I would have thought that that was the initial intent of the rules, but wasn't implimented due to technical restrictions?

Also, it would mean you couldn't target your monster at nobody anymore in the hopes of avoiding your opponents charm! You would *have* to throw something that wasn't that W.

[Slartucker]

The reason monsters can't be targeted with a counter the turn they are summoned is because counterspell comes ahead of summons in the order of spell resolution. If you change that, then you are either saying

1) monster spells happen before counterspells thus cannot be counterspelled (VERY, VERY BAD!)

2) throw order of spell resolution out the window. that's potentially fine, but it will create other tangles for you

[xade]

It's certainly a change to the spell resolution, but wouldn't necessarily need to throw the whole thing out.

Just tweak it a little when the target is LH: xade

[ourjake]

BioLogIn
but you would have to bank it before you were able to target the creature, right? Also, if you bank PSDD you deserve a covered summon

[nawglan]

you can bank it and target (RH: of Opponent) and pray that they pick the right hand to summon with or it's a wasted bank.

[xade]

Jan 4, 2010 19:48:06 GMT -5 nawglan said:

you can bank it and target (RH: of Opponent) and pray that they pick the right hand to summon with or it's a wasted bank.

But this is not warlocks as it is now.

I agree with Jake though, if you bank a charm, you deserve the free summon...

You've certainly got me thinking now though Bio- why shouldn't the owner at the end of the turn get the summon, even if it is targeted at nobody.

If the charm is there, the charm is there... hmmmm...

[ourjake]

Nawglan when you bank the spell as targetting RH:player, doesn't it target the monster that came from that hand that turn rather than the monster that is coming from that hand on the turn it's fired?

Xade you could work it where creatures that were cast at nobody stay around doing nothing until they get charmed(or attack random targets). but if you can target the charm at the creature even if the creature is cast at nobody, then i would think the creature would be able to survive without a master

[Slartucker]

Ourjake, that is correct.