JANUARY round chat

[Slartucker]

If someone wants to keep a running total of scores as games are completed like Dubber did last round, if you make a new topic with the table, I can sticky it at the top of the forum and then you can just edit the one post instead of having to repost on new pages, etc.

One suggestion: do not count kills as wins (and do not count deaths as surrenders). They are different results, and having to input a kill or death in two categories makes mistakes twice as likely, and harder to catch.

[ExDeath]

Ok, time to vote on who has the toughest pairings. I say it's Spleenboy.

[BioLogIn]

Regarding rule of month:
"The prohibited action is the actual summoning, not casting an -SFW spell, so if you target the spell at Nobody (or an elemental), or if it's countered or dispelled, you're safe."
Everything is clear save the 'dispel' part. Does that only means that
CDPW
CSFW
is a legal way to deal 1 damage with goblin?

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Starting pairings ranting, I've got ExDeath, Toyotami, Dubber, Emrys and Sojobo. I'm ok with first four, but I think the last one is nearly impossible to win - he has been inactive for ten days already ))

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I'll try to do the scorekeeping.

[BioLogIn]

Oh yes, there is a small mistake in the pairings of Laxen:
#16 Laxen -- 6 -- 11 -- 19 -- 25 -- 10
Is most probably should be read as follows:
#16 Laxen -- 6 -- 11 -- 19 -- 17 -- 10

--

Pairings by name:

#01 Lokiv -- Spleenboy -- Spez -- Reds -- Sojobo -- Nawglan
#02 Nawglan -- Lokiv -- Slartucker -- Loyus -- ExDeath -- Spez
#03 Citanest -- Loyus -- Vermont -- Xade -- Sojobo -- Slartucker
#04 Slartucker -- Nawglan -- Citanest -- Loyus -- Spez -- Reds
#05 Spez -- Lokiv -- Nawglan -- Slartucker -- Freesoul -- Dni
#06 Reds -- Lokiv -- Laxen -- Maven -- Jes -- Slartucker
#07 Vermont -- Citanest -- Spacca -- Sojobo -- Loyus -- Emrys
#08 Sojobo -- Lokiv -- Citanest -- Vermont -- BioLogIn -- Xade
#09 Jes -- Reds -- ExDeath -- Awall -- McLizard -- Toyotami
#10 Awall -- Jes -- Dubber -- Freesoul -- Dni -- Laxen
#11 Maven -- Reds -- Xade -- Laxen -- Spacca -- Spleenboy
#12 Loyus -- Nawglan -- Citanest -- Slartucker -- Vermont -- McLizard
#13 ExDeath -- Nawglan -- Jes -- BioLogIn -- Emrys -- Toyotami
#14 Toyotami -- Jes -- ExDeath -- BioLogIn -- Xade -- Spleenboy
#15 McLizard -- Jes -- Loyus -- Dubber -- Spacca -- Emrys
#16 Laxen -- Reds -- Maven -- Dni -- 25 (?Freesoul?) -- Awall
#17 Freesoul -- Spez -- Awall -- Laxen -- Xade -- Spleenboy
#18 Dubber -- Awall -- McLizard -- Dni -- Emrys -- BioLogIn
#19 Dni -- Spez -- Awall -- Laxen -- Dubber -- Spacca
#20 Spacca -- Vermont -- Maven -- McLizard -- Dni -- Spleenboy
#21 BioLogIn -- Sojobo -- ExDeath -- Toyotami -- Dubber -- Emrys
#22 Emrys -- Vermont -- ExDeath -- McLizard -- Dubber -- BioLogIn
#23 Spleenboy -- Lokiv -- Maven -- Toyotami -- Freesoul -- Spacca
#24 Xade -- Citanest -- Sojobo -- Maven -- Toyotami -- Freesoul

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I think Jes got the toughest one.

[Slartucker]

Yes, that 25 should be 17. Thanks Bio.

As for cDPW, it dispels the spell entirely, there's never a goblin summoned. I mentioned those cases for clarification in case they came up. They aren't actually ways around the rule.

[Rycchus]

What happens when you target an elemental with a summons?
Does the new monster "find no master" or does it remain with a Master: Nobody like it would in a melee game when its master dies?

Spacca seems to have got lucky with an easy draw again.
I think I agree jes got the hardest.

[Dubber]

More pairings problems:

ExDeath & Emrys only have 4 battles each
Loyus & BioLogin have 6 battles each

Count # Warlock Battle 1 Battle 2 Battle 3 Battle 4 Battle 5
4 13 ExDeath nawglan jes BioLogin Emrys Toyotami
4 22 Emrys Vermont ExDeath McLizard Dubber BioLogin
6 12 Loyus nawglan Citanest Slartucker Vermont McLizard
6 21 BioLogin Sojobo ExDeath Toyotami Dubber BioLogin
Full (first posted) table is now available in the "JANUARY -- standings" thread -- names and numbers are listed for everyone's convenience.

[BioLogIn]

2Dubber
Parings are OK, you probablly made some errors while building your table:
slarty.proboards56.com/index.cgi?board=league&action=display&thread=1199641472

[freesoul]

Ok, now it's time to guess how many people will forget the rule and accidentally summon something... My guess is 5

[jes]

If you charm your opponent into summoning, does it still count as them breaking the rule?

[reds]

I was about to ask about the exact same thing (since it's in my game vs. Jes).
I was charmed into a W and as a result summoned a creature. I admit I could have thought about it (though I really didn't think someone would do that) and set the target as no one.

The rules state nothing about it which I think is because no one thought about it.

I have no problem setting some kind of rule for future cases, but since the rules did not include this scenario when it happened I feel it would be unfair to punish me. (my 2 cents).

Slarty, please advise what we should do (Jes, I am gonna hold off playing until a Slarty ruling).

[BioLogIn]

2reds:
Slartucker will give his official wording, but IMHO league rules ( slarty.proboards56.com/index.cgi?board=league&action=display&thread=1195330982 ) are clear:
"If you accidentally break the league rule, you should surrender immediately."

Actually, it was throughly discussed in rules draft thread:
slarty.proboards56.com/index.cgi?board=league&action=display&thread=1194727891&page=3
and on to page 4 ( slarty.proboards56.com/index.cgi?board=league&action=display&thread=1194727891&page=4 ):

original post by Slartucker
I don't buy the "charmer is responsible" rule, because the charmee still sets the targets. If you can't cast cDPW and you charm someone to cDPW they can't avoid it, but if you charm to FOD and they can't cast FOD then they can theoretically cast SD instead.

I think the simplest solution would be to just say that you are responsible for what you cast, disrupted or not.

[reds]

Looks like I will need to surrender, I'll wait for Slarty's ruling though.

What I don't like about this is I will be punished for playing early/fast which the rules encourage. Jes will get rewarded for a tricky or dirty move taking advantage of a scenario not addressed in the rules, and almost everyone that reads the board will now set the target just in case so it probably won't happen again.

[Rycchus]

This has been discussed previously, but only in a theorising kind of way.
Slarty did say (in the draft of rules thread) that I think the simplest solution would be to just say that you are responsible for what you cast, disrupted or not.
but followed this with
However, we can discuss it more, because this will be totally irrelevant to the first league rule.
We never got round to this further discussion.

However, in theory it would come under the more general league rule:
If you accidentally break the league rule, you should surrender immediately.

[reds]

hmm, so the fact that I haven't surrendered immediately is a violation of the rules as well . Though perhaps I didn't break a league rule. I mean I didn't do anything by accident.

What annoys me is that I feel that Jes is taking advantage of a situation that is not clear. Even Jes posted right here after the move was made asking what the result should be.

Anyway, I will go to sleep and await Slarty's ruling.